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It seems that Canadian police (CPRC) tested that round back around '94, which at that time was probably quite similar to what it was in '86. It certainly seems that ball ammo would have penetrated sufficiently and thus we would likely not be discussing that '86 event. Hence, FBI and all who...

115 grain Winchester silvertip was the "famous" or "infamous" round that changed the FBI; in bare standard gel it penetrated about 9", more than 10" through clothing. Current version of this round seems to penetrate well over 11" after passing through 4LD (per TNoutdoors9 test).

Some increase in effective bullet diameter or area over caliber is generally required if the bullet is not going to over penetrate, meaning penetrate more than 18". Other than increase in bullet diameter or area necessary to limit penetration to not more than 18", my comment that there is no...

The 9mm shot by agent Dove, early in the fight, was nearly perfectly placed -- headed for ascending aorta (short of CNS, most rapidly incapacitating) but lacked sufficient penetration to disrupt it. Hence the FBI realized that adequate penetration is a very important bullet requirement.

Looking more closely at this amateur auto glass test reveals: 1. The bullets used in this amateur test are not any bullets used by the FBI (highly relevant in this discussion), 2. The tester admits that the test is not up to FBI testing standards as the shot wasn't angled correctly. 3...

That action at a distance though individual particles (electrons/ ions) don't move much is also shared by a phenomenon called electricity (not static).

True, but one wonders how "hydrostatic shock" stuck even to the point where Courtneys' referred to their theory as "hydrostatic" shock. Of course, being Ph.D.s in physics they certainly knew better.

Yes it is public information and I just looked it up for the sake of this discussion. From NRA Shooting Illustrated (after testing it) :"Steel is tough on bullets and often makes them come apart -- the core sheds the jacket. Even though the Hornady 9mm Critical Duty load did not expand after...

As previously mentioned, I don't know what the current FBI contract ammunition is -- I have been referring to widely available "duty" ammunition from Federal, Speer, and Winchester. For 9mm that would include ammunition such as Federal HST, 124, 147 grain, likewise Speer Gold Dot, 124 and 147...

The currently widely available JHPs from Federal, Speer, and Winchester intended for "duty" use can be seen, on respective manufacturer's data including pictures, as generally not expanding after passing through sheet metal protocols barrier but, generally, still penetrating 12-18" of gel. As...

Courtney was heavily hedging his bet on realization of "hydrostatic" shock. Although his given probability of inducing hydrodynamic ("hydrostatic") shock increases with decreasing penetration and increasing fragmentation -- he nevertheless, did not advise for much less than 12" penetration.

I never claimed to have all information about anything and whatever concepts i believe to be valid based on the evidence I am aware of can be immediately invalidated by appropriate and persuasive contrary evidence (basis of scientific method) -- presented by anyone at anytime. Hence, if a claim...

The "test" you referenced was carried out by an amateur. I suggest, for your edification, to look at the major manufacturers' pictures regarding JHP "expansion" after passing through sheet metal (or auto glass). Hint: almost invariably JHP cavity gets shut by its jacket due to impact with...

[ The statement that JHPs generally don't expand after passing through auto glass and sheet metal can be verified by looking at Winchester, Speer, Federal, among other manufacturers, terminal ballistics information. However, as mentioned previously, JHPs do deform to some extent, but...

Overwhelming majority of JHPs that are intended for "duty" that pass through auto glass or sheet metal do not expand -- they do deform to some extent. Of course, if JHPs don't deform it's likely that 18" penetration will be exceeded and thereby not meet penetration requirement. There is a...

Well, if JHPs have to expand after penetrating auto glass (one of protocol barriers) - then which JHP can pass that test?

Actually, after passing through some protocols barriers such as auto glass -- there is no JHP expansion, so how can there be a requirement for expansion?

Wrong, according to Fackler. In any case, tumbling is not an explanation for discrepancy in penetration -- which is what 94045 asked for.

What's the requirement for expansion, after a JHP penetrates various protocols barriers?

Your response to 94045 "to explain" substantial difference in penetration in gel vs. tissue as because bullets are more likely to tumble in body soft tissues than in 10% ordnance gel is your irrelevant conjecture, contradicted by Fackler himself who believed otherwise. In any case, as I...