“Hero” charges into gunfight and is killed by police

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avoiding this friendly fire tragedy needs to be taught in every ccw class and, with ever greater numbers of ccw permit holders, emphasized in police training.

as for me, given my years and my ccw at the very top most being just a five shot 38sp snubbie but more likely a 32acp or 22lr mouse gun, i am seeking to hunker down, break contact and not engage unless attacked, especially in a crowded spot: too many people, too many variables, too many unintended targets, too many unseen bad guy accomplices. seeing a policeman coming up short on a quiet road my instinct is to help out in some way.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/bystander-good-samaritan-shoot-troopers-assailant/story?id=44765254
 
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Another blue on blue casualty. Police officers ambushed, armed citizen charges out of a nearby store and engages the gunman. Armed citizen shot and killed by responding officers.

Not a lot of information on what happened in this article but we need to remember that this same situation happens way too often when off duty or plainclothes officers intervene.


'Hero' killed while confronting gunman was 'died from police bullet'


https://mol.im/a/9726149


Everyone, sworn or private citizen needs to think of how they are going to look to responding officers and plan to engage from cover if you decide to engage. Two good guys dead as well as the bad guy. One of the good guys apparently killed by friendly fire.

As are a few here,I too was an LEO [ 13 years retired ] and I can see that we [ retirees & active duty ] see this ina very different light than even the best of those who CCW.

By "the best" I mean those who try as hard as possible to be a really good citizen and practice as often as possible .

I have a firm handle on what can and likely will happen if I clear leather [ actually most likey kydex ].

I have the one luxury of knowing and being known by the responding officers IF [ big if ] I am in my home town [ small city ].

And after 26 active duty years as an instructor of D/T and firearms,I had a real life of teaching and that means HANDS ON .

So I had the luxury of doing "felony takedowns" more than a few hundred times a year.

That is why I firmly believe in any and all doing "force on force training".

This was a horrible incident,it was not in any way the fault of the responding officers who correctly fired on a real THREAT.

ONLY in the movies or boob tube do you see officers asking the perp to aim & fire at them.

Yes,that is what " halt ,police,drop the gun/knife" actually mean.

rant off.
 
That last point is excellent. I've seen it debated in civilian classes since I started taking them in the 90's. Some instructors emphasized always challenging and commanding. Studies demonstrated that even if you have someone covered but are yapping, the opponent can and quite often shoots first.

In that period, some guys in IDPA would challenge each target before shooting, to add 'realism'. They were quickly told that this was a game and shut up. Now knowing who your target is - is a good thing. But that's a slightly different and complex issue. There will always be mistakes. We go from shooting a person with a cell phone to shooting someone who on the surface looks like the opponent. It's kind of like a signal to noise, what's your criteria signal detection situation.
 
Not that it's any less idiotic coming from a four star general.
He likes to present himself that way. When he was being questioned in his confirmation hearing for Sec of Defense, one of the senators asked him what keeps him awake at night. He answered that nothing keeps him awake at night, he keeps other people awake at night.
 
The issue is not that he acted, but how.
Yes, it is. But nobody here in this thread knows what happened. Everything written in this thread about how the Good Samaritan acted is pure speculation. Arvada PD hasn't released any video beyond the first minute when the police officer was shot. Within a few days the Avarda PD released video of the officer being shot. But three weeks later still no video of the Good Samaritan killing the perp or video of the shooting of the Good Samaritan. Hmmmmmm, makes a person wonder; why no video?
 
But three weeks later still no video of the Good Samaritan killing the perp or video of the shooting of the Good Samaritan. Hmmmmmm, makes a person wonder; why no video?

How long does an investigation of an officer involved shooting take? Do you have any idea? If you think they are going to release this video until the investigation is complete you are most likely mistaken. If you are that concerned, why don't you file a FOIA request for the video and post it somewhere? In the meantime we aren't going to speculate about the motives or action of the Arvada PD here.
 
Unlike many posters here, I didn't speculate about any party's actions including the APD. I did note the APD and the local DA released third party surveillance video of the first minute of the event two days later but nothing since. All the speculation/answers about the next two minutes will be cleared up when the rest of the third party videos are released. But speculation about the Good Samaritan's state of mind and actions are repeated regularly in this thread.
 
All the speculation/answers about the next two minutes will be cleared up when the rest of the third party videos are released.
I wouldn't count on it.

But speculation about the Good Samaritan's state of mind and actions are repeated regularly in this thread.
One may speculate about his state of mind.

Regarding his actions, all we know is that he was holing the gun.

We should learn from that.
 
What if the hero was with the bad guy? Killed the other bad guy and pretended to be a hero and botched it by not dropping the gun? Hopefully a bad guy wasn’t labeled a hero or vise versa.


The above is just silly crap since any guess as to the hero’s mindset is fair game on the net.
 
CCW Safe has now posted part 1 of what appears to be going to be a 2-part series on this incident.

I noted with some interest that their advice as to whether to near the (possibly only temporarily) downed BG, whether to touch his firearm, and what to do if he gets back up is exactly what our own Jeff White advised. We are so fortunate to have him here. :)

https://ccwsafe.com/blog/34771
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Posted By: Justin Collett

Last month in Arvada, Colorado, Ronald Troyke arrived at the Olde Towne Square downtown area armed with a shotgun and rifle. Officer Gordon Beesley was dispatched to the scene pursuant to a suspicious person call and began searching for Troyke on foot. While he was walking through an alley he was observed by Troyke, who was at that time in his truck. Troyke followed Beesley in his truck, then parked it, emerged with a shotgun, and began to follow the officer. At some point he shot and killed Officer Beesley and then began to fire his shotgun at other patrol cars in the crowded downtown area. Troyke then went back to his truck, exchanged his shotgun for an AR-15 rifle, and headed back towards the Olde Towne Square. Before he could shoot anyone else, he was intercepted by concealed carrier John Hurley, who the Arvada Police Department called a hero who “saved numerous lives to include civilians and other Arvada Police Officers.” Hurley moved in and shot Troyke, who did not survive. Sadly, neither did Hurley, who was mistakenly shot by a responding police officer after he picked up the killer’s rifle.

Shortly after this took place, firearms instructor and former Special Forces operator and trainer John Holschen posted the following: “As a private citizen, I do not suggest that you approach a downed bad guy (BG) as a default action. Observe him from cover/distance until LE (‘Law Enforcement’) arrives. If the BG attempts to rearm himself and continue his assault he can be dealt with appropriately from that position. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule (such as) a hostile crowd threatening to pick up his weapon. In the absence of such a threat, however, I have no reason to approach the BG and even less reason to want to touch his weapon.”

The remainder of this article addresses specific actions that concealed carriers might take (or even avoid) after a shooting in order to ensure that they are not shot by mistake by responding law enforcement, other concealed carriers, or even accomplices to the shooter. The same is true even if the attacker is no longer at the scene.

Do I choose to get involved, or do I have to get involved? Do I need to immediately defend myself and perhaps my loved ones and my only option is to engage the shooter? Do I need to rush towards gunfire because the same loved ones are in jeopardy of being shot? Am I willing to risk my life to save people that I do not know? Or do I really just want to be a hero and this may be my one and only chance to make that happen?

If I need to rush to the scene, I may be best served by keeping my handgun holstered with perhaps my hand on the grip or in a low-profile position like compressed low ready. It is one thing if I am on a House of Worship Security Team responding to an active shooter and another to just be one more face in the crowd except for the fact that I am holding a highly visible handgun in a chaotic environment where it is easy to be mistaken for the shooter.

I will not approach the shooter after he or she has either surrendered or been shot and apparently incapacitated. I could be mistaken by others for the shooter, or he or she may suddenly re-animate and start shooting again. There is always the possibility that the shooter may be carrying an improvised explosive device and feigning death in order to take me and others with him or her. One exception for me is that I may need to close distance in order to get to an injured third party. If so, I want to treat the shooter like that Michael Myers character in the Halloween movies and never turn my back on him or her.

I am going to leave the shooter’s gun alone. This goes double if it is a rifle or shotgun. It is simply not good form to be carrying a long gun in a location which no one else is conspicuously carrying firearms, and my chances of being mistaken for the shooter could increase astronomically. One exception that I can think of is that if I need to leave the scene in order to move to where other family members or loved ones are then I do not want the shooter to recover, follow me, and shoot me in the back. Unless it is a Mumbai scenario in which there are multiple armed terrorists shooting up the place, there is nothing to gain by holstering my pistol and using the shooter’s long gun instead. I think the possibility of needing to take the shooter’s long gun are remote, but the odds are always greater than zero. If so, removing the magazine on a magazine-fed rifle, clearing the chamber, and then holding the firearm with the support hand so that the inside of the buttstock contacts the top of the shoulder (which results in the muzzle pointing down at the ground but not my feet) and holding my dominant hand near the side of my face with my palm facing outward and fingers splayed may go a long ways toward my not being mistaken for the shooter and engaged.

Part Two of this article covers the topics of moving to a better and safer position, scanning for additional shooters, prepared for the arrival of responding law enforcement officers and other concealed carriers in possible “hero” mode, calling 911, interacting with responding law enforcement upon arrival, and preparing for the aftermath after the scene has been fully secured.
 
I hope to do the right thing. If I get killed for it, it's OK. Heaven is a real place and I expect to go there.

I don't train or imagine picking up the assailant's firearm......I train to kick it away and reload my own.

Now if there was more than one assailant and I needed the attacker's rifle, sure, but one assailant only, I would kick it away. Police coming or there? I would not pick up the rifle.
 
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