“High capacity magazines” article in St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by benEzra, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/stronger-firepower-a-factor-in-deadlier-street-violence-experts-say/article_55c4924b-1654-5450-8d7e-a1a081c8e5cf.html

    After going on and on about “high” capacity over-10-round magazines, the author of that article leads up to this:
    In an article demonizing capacity, the climax of his article is a non sequitur; he seems profoundly ignorant of the fact that for any size handgun or rifle, lower capacity guns are larger-caliber guns, and higher-capacity guns are smaller-caliber guns, for any given dimensions; a magazine can hold more small rounds or fewer larger rounds, all else being equal. To require lower capacities is to push larger calibers for the same sized guns, or to push more concealable guns. If the converse of Mr. Cook’s premise is true, that pushing larger calibers would increase fatalities, then pushing lower capacity guns would arguably drive more homicides, not fewer. For many buyers of full-sized handguns, if you are going to be stuck with a 19th-century magazine capacity for everyday use due to exorbitant prices, those rounds are going to be the biggest you can fit 10 of in the magazine.

    If you make over-10-round rifle magazines exorbitantly expensive or unable to be openly used at the shooting range without risking a felony, expect a mass shift of AR-15’s to 6.5mm Grendel, 6.8mm SPC, .30 Remington AR, .458 SOCOM....and some migration to some postban AR-10 variants or similar.

    I think the national conversation on guns would be more productive if the meme that “more than 10 rounds” equals “high capacity” were treated with more skepticism. The very first repeating rifle to ever go mainstream in the early to mid 1860s (Henry, which morphed into the Winchester Model 1866) had a 15-round magazine, and full-sized 9mm’s have held more than ten rounds since the Browning P-35.

    He mentions that the BATFE doesn’t keep detailed stats on criminal misuse by gun type (though they used to, with YCGIS), but the FBI publishes pretty comprehensive homicide data by weapon type in both the UCR (Table 20, and others) and LEOKA data sets, which o don’t think he’s familiar with. And I think BATFE trace data would probably show that full-sized handguns are underrepresented in street homicide compared to midsize and compact guns.

    This is what happens when a journalist with a degree in international relations writes about a field he has little to no experience or firsthand knowledge of...
     
  2. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    I think it must be some sort of oxymoron to mention 'journalist' and 'data set'.
     
  3. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Or journalism and balanced, or journalism and unbiased, etc.

    Mentioning journalism and propaganda together is valid, however, as they are sadly one and the same.
     
  4. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Does he know that the "higher caliber" handguns have "lower capacity" magazines? No. Idiots. :thumbdown:
     
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  5. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    You didn't known that's a prerequisite to be a journalist???? o_O
     
  6. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    I also don’t think he understands that .22’s have done plenty of work in establishing those fatality statistics being looked at.
     
  7. The Last Outlaw

    The Last Outlaw Member

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    It takes an expert to figure out that higher calibers have higher fatality rates? He went to college for that?
     
  8. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, we are looking at this backwards.

    That's because we are "gun" people and pride ourselves in knowing what's what. And from being driven to always seek to be "right" since GCA 68 has mandated that all gun owner continuously prove them selves innocent to exercise their rights.

    So, journalists, under no such onus, can come to a conclusion and seek out and publish only that data which supports their assertions.

    Perhaps what we need are journalism licenses, mandatory safety training, and the like. After all, the Founders never envisioned typewriters, telephones, radio, tv, or the internet. If it saves just one child's life . . .
     
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  9. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    Well, the Founders envisioned a fundamental need for freedom of speech. Perhaps they were only shortsighted in assuming that "free speech" and "truth" were somehow equivalent.

    But ... you pretty much have to allow anything and everything otherwise eventually you end up with a government "Ministry of Truth".
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  10. Dudedog
    • Contributing Member

    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Manual printing press only, limited to 10 lines......
     
  11. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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  12. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Thread seems to be complaining about the press in general rather than the proposal. If we can’t discuss that , heading for a close.
     
  13. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    One thing that I have have noticed is that when jurisdictions impose magazine size restrictions, folks tend to up-caliber. If you have to carry a pistol with less than 10 rounds, then make them .45 ACP or .40 S&W instead of 9mm.
     
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  14. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Call me a conspiracy theorist if you will, but I fully expected that after a Biden win, the media would begin a subtle, orchestrated campaign on gun issues -- planting the seeds in the public minds, and setting up the ruling party's gun control efforts. This is just the start. Soon there will be a deluge of this sort of reporting in the MSM. This is the way the media supports the Democrat party agenda.

    Expect more and more articles in the metro newspapers, "exposes" and "investigative reporting" on the network news -- all to start the brainwashing all over again, that "high-capacity" magazines and semi-auto firearms are evil.
     
  15. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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  16. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey member

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    The bottom line is they want you disarmed. They don't care about your logic. They don't even care if what they're saying is true or not, they want you disarmed.

    And that's how we need to approach this not trying to refute their logic but telling them that we will not be disarmed
     
  17. ozarkhillbilly

    ozarkhillbilly Member

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    The media wants us disarmed and they do not care how many lies they have to tell to achieve their goal. What shocks me is how many gun people who do not believe their lies on guns are completely willing to believe the other stories they tell.
     
  18. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    Here in Missouri, we don't call that newspaper the St Louis Post Disgrace for nothing! They have been very anti-gun for as long as I can remember.
     
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  19. Deanimator

    Deanimator member

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    Modern "journalism" isn't about facts. It's about Marxist ideology.

    They are following in the bloody footsteps of Walter Duranty.

    Facts are as anathema today as they were during the Holodomor.
     
  20. kwguy

    kwguy Member

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    Exactly
     
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  21. giggitygiggity

    giggitygiggity Member

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    Exactly. And the sad/frustrating thing is that the morons read this garbage often have no clue what magazines, calibers, etc mean, but finish reading the article with an assumption that because it is a published article and because the author mentioned a college professor, it must be true and that any dissenting opinion is invalid.
     
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  22. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    If limited to 10 rounds, Glock 29SF, 30SF, 27, 33 or a 1911 in 45 acp or 10mm.
     
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  23. Steve S.

    Steve S. Member

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    Yes, the gun culture is educated about gun detail, the larger anti or neutral population (usually) is not; therein lies the advantage of manipulation.
     
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  24. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    It's incremental-ism.

    Long gun & hand gun imaginary statistics:

    • Size X & bigger &/or 'high powered' = 40% of deaths
    • Size X & smaller &/low powered = 15% of deaths
    • Std cap 'fully semi automatic' = 60% of deaths (add death % of cartridge class from above for total mortality)
    • All others combined = 5%

    Contrived logic:
    Eliminate something = more children not getting killed by WEAPONS OF WAR.


    (Math is correct using new world order math to support the mandate of the American voters.)
     
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  25. mmb617

    mmb617 Member

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    Does graduation from college make one an expert on everything? Apparently it does as those experts are usually spouting off about subjects having nothing to do with their field of study. As far as I'm concerned the only field those who graduate with a journalism degree know anything about is manipulation of the masses.

    If one were to accept the premise this professor offers, that higher calibers lead to more deaths, then it should be obvious that mag limits will also lead to more deaths since we all know that most of us would move to larger calibers if limited in capacity. But then we are lawful gun owners, maybe that wouldn't be the case with criminals. I think they for the most part use whatever firearms they can get without worrying over legalities. I can imagine it now, a criminal realizes he can no longer use his stolen gun with obliterated serial number because it has an illegally large magazine and he doesn't want to break the law.
     
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