Off topic but I have a question that perhaps someone with your expertise can answer. I had a bottle of insect repellent ( Sportsmen Max 40% Deet) in the side door of my truck. When the interior heated up the bottle expanded and some of the bug spray leaked out. The spray liquefied (not just melted) the door pocket and my question is what the hell? and how do I nullify the reaction?
“Synthetic Gun Oil” safer for plastic gun parts? Not likely.
- Thread starter rpenmanparker
- Start date
- Status
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
The solvent in the bug repellant absorbed into and softened the plastic. It can't be fixed, only replaced. Once something loses its strength and shape, it is gone for good. Sorry.
Thank you. Wonder what it would do to a Glock?
morcey2
Member
Speak for yourself, man. I think I've still got quite a few good years left in me.....
Matt
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
The polymer from which the door pocket is made is likely amorphous, that is non-crystalline. Or maybe it is plasticized PVC, a polymer with a little crystallinity but softened by a lot of another liquid chemical to make it like leather. Either of these situations would predispose a plastic to attack by a powerful solvent. Nylon, on the other hand, is highly crystalline. Crystallinity protects plastics against chemical attack. I imagine there are solvents which would attack a Glock, but only the most aggressive ones.
Last edited:
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
As it should be!Speak for yourself, man. I think I've still got quite a few good years left in me.....
Matt
Highcaliber
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 206
I have also seen products with DEET, melt holes in tents that were exposed to drops of the insect repellent. Makes you wonder... when so many people spray the stuff all over their kids.
.
Double_J
Member
I work for an auto parts manufacturer as a plastic trim parts quality engineer so I think I can help with some of the plastic issues. Almost all of the parts I am responsible for are made of one grade or another of abs plastic. Our testing lab verifies they will handle a range of solvents, and some of the reactions are "interesting" to say the least. One batch of resin for lack of a better word melted as soon as the mild solvent hit it, where on other grade of the same resin was untouched after the full test regime. Without knowing what plastic the manufacturer uses, and what grade there is limited ability to guess what it will do with oil other than "gun oil." I use o'reilly auto parts 5W20 synthetic oil on my guns for what it's worth.
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
I have no reason to say that auto engine oil would definitely be bad for any gun, polymer frame or metal. But I think you should be aware of how much “stuff” engine oil contains besides the lubricating oil base. There are thickeners to control viscosity over the very wide temperature range the oil must withstand. There are alkaline salts to neutralize acids produced in gasoline combustion, There are detergents to keep decomposed oil molecules from depositing on the sensitive engine parts like valves. There may be added chemical lubricants. And so forth. Many of the additives are there to extend the life of the oil between changes. But guns aren’t used like that.
Besides all that “synthetic” sounds sexy, but doesn’t have any real importance outside of an internal combustion engine. Synthetic oils are still petroleum-based hydrocarbons. Nothing very sexy about them. They are simply tailored to behave better in the high heat, high wear environment of the internal combustion engine.
None of this stuff is needed on a gun. Why would you put so much chemical stuff on your gun when it can’t do any extra good and can only possibly do harm? Simple machine oil always has been the best lubricant for guns. Maybe in some cases a clean, light grease instead. Why would you use anything else?
Besides all that “synthetic” sounds sexy, but doesn’t have any real importance outside of an internal combustion engine. Synthetic oils are still petroleum-based hydrocarbons. Nothing very sexy about them. They are simply tailored to behave better in the high heat, high wear environment of the internal combustion engine.
None of this stuff is needed on a gun. Why would you put so much chemical stuff on your gun when it can’t do any extra good and can only possibly do harm? Simple machine oil always has been the best lubricant for guns. Maybe in some cases a clean, light grease instead. Why would you use anything else?
Arizona_Mike
Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 3,452
The type of cross-linked thermosetting polymers used in firearms are not soluble at all in long chain hydrocarbons whether they are petroleum, synthetic, or biologically produced.
Mike
Mike
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
The polymers used in pistol frames are neither cross linked nor thermoset. Now rubber o-rings would be a different matter. Nylon 66 is a classic semi-crystalline thermoplastic.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
I spray it on their clothes and try to avoid skin contact.
DEET can be used to quickly and easily remove yellow oxidation from some cars' headlight lenses, BTW. It is nothing short of miraculous on Ford and Mazda lenses, somewhat less so on most GMs and has little to no effect on Kias and Hyundais....different lenses compounds react differently.
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
DEET is a powerful solvent.
I for one can testify to that fact.
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
Since we have established there is no real advantage to “synthetic” oils for lubrication of guns with regard to their plastic parts, I will not likely make the change after all. But even if I did so, I would confidently rely on the validation testing performed by Hoppe’s. They are far better equipped and trained to perform the specific tests than I am.
Poper
Member
Oh, yes they do! The plastic thermostat housing on the 2004 Ford 4.0L V6 is over $300! Replacing it on my 2004 Ranger cost me over $700. Hey, once it is out of warranty, it is money in their pocket!
I have heard it said the manufacturers don't study worn parts to see how they can make them better, but to see what they can do to make all major parts wear out at the same time. That way the customer would be much more likely to buy a new vehicle instead of fixing the older one.
Not all oils are based on petroleum stocks. One specific brand of synthetic oil is chained from a gas - ie gaseous product. And there are numerous plants attached to food production plants which crack the byproduct stream and make precursor polymer feed stocks. LIke - turkey processing plants.
So it's entirely possible you could lube your polymer gun made originally of a biological source, like turkey byproducts, with a synthetic oil which had no feed stock pumped out of an oil well, but a decomposing landfill or recycling processor. To a chemical engineer operating a cracking tower making hydrocarbon chains, it's all feed stock and it's all probable. Costs are what eventually drive it.
I'd be less worried about the polymers, we've used plastic grip panels on the 1911 much longer than carried Glocks and the major problem has always been dirt's abrasive nature.
So it's entirely possible you could lube your polymer gun made originally of a biological source, like turkey byproducts, with a synthetic oil which had no feed stock pumped out of an oil well, but a decomposing landfill or recycling processor. To a chemical engineer operating a cracking tower making hydrocarbon chains, it's all feed stock and it's all probable. Costs are what eventually drive it.
I'd be less worried about the polymers, we've used plastic grip panels on the 1911 much longer than carried Glocks and the major problem has always been dirt's abrasive nature.
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
There are two major kinds of oils, hydrocarbon and triglycerides. It doesn’t matter whether they come from petroleum or not as to how they behave. Only their structures affect that. Their solvent properties are slightly different, but not enough to matter here. So if a synthetic oil is hydrocarbon, it will likely behave much like a petroleum analog with regard to solvency. Thst’s Why it is not necessary to seek out a synthetic oil. For guns there is very little upside.
BSA1
member
Ok stop with the arguing!
There is only one way to truly settle this debate. Someone has to donate two guns for testing.
Since I have two new S&W M&P's 1.0 9mm pistols I am volunteering them for real world testing. I purchased them one year apart so they are of the polymers / plastic S&W uses.
Gun #1 will only be oiled with CLP.
Gun #2 will be oiled with Mobil One 5w30 synthetic motor oil which I get by draining the last few extra drops from the jug when I change the oil in my trucks.
I will report my observations whenever I see any differences in the polymer / plastic or in how the parts are wearing. It might take a few years (if ever) but I will report back if it happens (if I am still alive).
You don't have to thank me. It is my small contribution to the discussion.
There is only one way to truly settle this debate. Someone has to donate two guns for testing.
Since I have two new S&W M&P's 1.0 9mm pistols I am volunteering them for real world testing. I purchased them one year apart so they are of the polymers / plastic S&W uses.
Gun #1 will only be oiled with CLP.
Gun #2 will be oiled with Mobil One 5w30 synthetic motor oil which I get by draining the last few extra drops from the jug when I change the oil in my trucks.
I will report my observations whenever I see any differences in the polymer / plastic or in how the parts are wearing. It might take a few years (if ever) but I will report back if it happens (if I am still alive).
You don't have to thank me. It is my small contribution to the discussion.
stchman
Member
You will see nothing, zero difference. If you look, CLP is made from PAO(base stock of synthetic oil) just like Mobil 1. I've been using Mobil 1 for years on my guns with no problems.
OP
OP
rpenmanparker
Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,456
Please tell us why not just 3 in 1
stchman
Member
3 in 1 is a naphthenic oil, not a PAO. I'm sure 3 in 1 oil would do a fine job lubricating guns just like PAO or mineral oil.
- Status
