•••Taurus public defender...?•••

[TTv2]

A friend of mine bought a Judge a few years back. He isn't much of a gun guy and suspect that is true of most that buy them.
It wasn't long before he told me he didn't like it.

Probably didn't like the recoil with 410. I have a .410 derringer (not a Bond Arms) and it's about the stoutest recoil I've felt in a handgun. I don't shoot it often, but that's more to do with the horrible sights that make it difficult to shoot further than 5 yards away.

 

[buck460XVR]

Where I disagree is the .45 Colt accuracy. No, it's not going to be better or equal to a standard .45 Colt revolver, but it's not meant to be a 25 yards pocket sniper revolver. Out to 15, the .410/.45's will work, but nobody is buying them for shooting out to 15 yards. These are point and shoot home defense handguns or carjacker guns or survivalist/prepper guns because just recently Shortlane came out with rifled adapters to shoot in .410 guns. A Judge that can shoot .38 Special and 9mm? Cool stuff for some people.

^^^This. I do not own a Judge/Governor, nor do I have any intentions to do so. Still I think for the purpose they were designed for(5 yards or less) and the target customer base(folks who do not shoot handguns often) they can be a viable SD tool. Or, they can be a lot of fun with watermelons at the range.

 

[TTv2]

Seen a couple here mention the .45 Bulldog by Charter and I can't help but agree with them. Before I started reloading, I was looking at getting a .410 revolver for the multiple projectiles, but when I found out that you can load 2 balls into a .44 or .45 case, I went that route instead. Does two 147 grain round balls of .45 caliber beat four 80 grain balls of .35 caliber? IDK, but what I do know is that I can shoot my .45 with those dual ball loads out to 25 yards and they'll hit within 3 inches of each other, about an inch at 10 yards.

I suspect I would get the same results with the Charter.

I don't know which is better for concealed carry. I wouldn't be shooting .410 in the Public Defender because everything that comes out of that barrel you're liable for. Imagine if the wad came out and it flew into the eye of an illegal immigrant child? You're going to jail for child abuse and if the prosecutor can swing it, a hate crime.

Not so much an issue with .45 Colt. Personally the only appeal to .410 revolvers to me now is the adapters that let you shoot smaller calibers in them. Not a fast reload at all, but 5 shots of 9mm is better than no shots of .45 Colt or .410.

 

[gotboostvr]

TTv2,

I'm not sure I'd compare a Judge to a hate crime, but it's close.

That double round ball 45 load sounds interesting, mind posting something about it in the reloading section?

 

[TTv2]

TTv2,

I'm not sure I'd compare a Judge to a hate crime, but it's close.

That double round ball 45 load sounds interesting, mind posting something about it in the reloading section?

Not much to talk about. I think I used 7.5 grains of Unique, loaded a Hornady .454 ball in first to fully seal the bore and a Hornady .451 ball on top of that to try and increase the spread.

I would use it for home defense, but I need to buy more brass as I'm constantly testing new loads and almost never have any .45 Colt handloads fully put together.

I think casting would be better because not only is it cheaper, but those Hornady's were pure lead black powder balls. I'd like to get the BHN up to 10-12, which is plenty hard.

Have another idea in mind with .38/.357. 75 grain wadcutter loaded in the case, round ball on top of that. Multiple projectiles, but the lower bearing surface means lower pressures and the wadcutter does more damage than a round ball. Would do this for .45 Colt, but I can't find full wadcutters that weigh under 125 grains.

 

[greg_r]

My purpose for the 45/410 is specifically to shoot 410 shot shells. Snake medicine. We are blessed to have moccasins, copperheads, and Rattlers here. I like to catfish from shore at night, and it's rare not to have a snake come to the lantern. The 45/410 revolver is easier to carry than the Snake Charmer single shot shotgun or the H&R Survivor 45/410.

I would not be adverse to using the 45/410 with the PDX Defender as a car gun. That said, I would just as soon have my GP100 loaded with 44 special rat shot as the 45/410.

 

[DWFan]

A 6.5" barrel/2.5" cylinder Judge would be a good choice for the .45 Black Powder Magnum. <chuckle>

 

[TTv2]

A 6.5" barrel/2.5" cylinder Judge would be a good choice for the .45 Black Powder Magnum. <chuckle>

This has just peaked my intrigue further than anything else this year. Would love to see a 2.5 inch brass .410 shell loaded with BP and topped with a 250 grain pill and see how the velocity and group sizes are.

Then again, why not just buy a BFR .45-70 instead?

 

[DWFan]

This has just peaked my intrigue further than anything else this year. Would love to see a 2.5 inch brass .410 shell loaded with BP and topped with a 250 grain pill and see how the velocity and group sizes are.
Then again, why not just buy a BFR .45-70 instead?

SA vs DA, weapon size and purchase price. A .45 BPM Judge would be a novelty weapon after all.
Thinking about it, I guess you could use .444 Marlin brass for a 3" cylinder Judge.

 

[mcb]

SA vs DA, weapon size and purchase price. A .45 BPM Judge would be a novelty weapon after all.
Thinking about it, I guess you could use .444 Marlin brass for a 3" cylinder Judge.

Why not just buy brass 410 shells? Magtech makes them. You really don't get much better performance from them, they just last a bit longer. I would not try to push the pressure beyond 45 Colt or 410 pressures, have you ever looked at how thin the cylinder wall of a Judge is? It is designed for SAAMI MAP pressures for 45 Colt and I would not push it much past that or its going to show you its grenade impersonation.

 

[DWFan]

1. Mag Tech brass isn't 2.5". It is 2.36".
2. Mag Tech brass isn't designed to roll crimp on a bullet.
3. Both .460 S&W and .444 Marlin are cheaper and stronger than .410 brass.
4. Black powder develops considerably lower peak pressures than smokeless with a completely different pressure curve.

I have now given this more thought than I ever thought I'd give it. Apologies to the OP for hi-jacking the thread.

 

[mcb]

1. Mag Tech brass isn't 2.5". It is 2.36".
2. Mag Tech brass isn't designed to crimp on a bullet.
3. Both .460 S&W and .444 Marlin are cheaper and stronger than .410 brass.
4. Black powder develops considerably lower peak pressures than smokeless with a completely different pressure curve.

I have now given this more thought than I ever thought I'd give it.

1) A crimped plastic 410 hull, per SAAMI, has a maximum length of 2.36 inch when utilizing a folded crimp (2.4 if rolled), hence the reason Magtech brass hulls are 2.36. A 2.5 inch 410 is only 2.5 long un-crimped.

2) There is no reason you could not crimp a brass shotshell onto a bullet. It is common to put a crimp on brass shotshells to help retain the over shot wad or a slug.



3) The brass is not going to allow you to run higher pressure or get any more performance from a Judge, brass simply does not contribute that much strength compared to the steel frame/cylinder and in a Judge the frame /cylinder strength is the limiting factor.

4) If black-powder produced lower peak pressure then why do you need the the stronger brass?

 

[TTv2]

SA vs DA, weapon size and purchase price. A .45 BPM Judge would be a novelty weapon after all.
Thinking about it, I guess you could use .444 Marlin brass for a 3" cylinder Judge.

Understood, I like the idea for the versatility as a more accurate .45 out of the .410 revolvers, even if it has to be black powder, is better than a less accurate .45 Colt. Then add in the .38 Special and 9mm adapters and I could see a single action .45/.410 like the BFR as a prepper's wet dream. The ejector rod can knock out the 9mm/.38 brass from the adapter instead of having to pull the adapter out of a double action and poke the brass out with a stick.

Still a novelty, but it's an interesting concept that might be able to make the Judge/Governors perform a little better in some areas.

 

[stchman]

Mostly it is because they are silly gimmicks.

I agree, but S&W though the gimmick was good enough to copy the Judge with their Governor.

 

[jdmb03]

I would like a 45 colt snub, and short on funds. The polymer defender is only 4-5 oz more than an xds 3.3
It would seem with the long cylinder throats that the defender would work decent with 45 colt. I could care less about the 410

I sent you a message that I think you will like.

 

[the Black Spot]

Thx jdmb03!

 

[Penoe Hunter]

I used to mock Judges as monstrosities until I had a less than satisfactory experience with a 38 shot load on a close in rattler. At five yards a 410 in a
public defender pulverizes a full can of soda.