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10/22 takedown POI shifts with hold

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Elkins45, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    This is shaping up to be a bad year for guns for me. The two new ones I have bought are giving me accuracy problems and my old carry gun has started malfunctioning. I'm hoping the spring gets better.

    I bought a Ruger 10/22 takedown a couple of months ago. It's a neat rifle, especially when coupled with a silencer. Unfortunately it has a case of the wobbles. This target was shot L to R, top to bottom, each a 10 shot group. Here's the thing: I didn't adjust the sights at all. These groups weren't shot off of bags, they were shot with my elbows resting on the bench. Even a slight change in hand position caused a shift in POI. In fact, the last two groups were fired with what I thought was exactly the same hold. Obviously some of the group spread is due to shooting without a rest, but it seems obvious to me that the center of even the bad groups has shifted around.

    I have the barrel tensioner cranked up as tight as I can get it. I didn't notice this issue when I sighted it in nor the first few times I shot it without the silencer. I'm thinking maybe the added weight at the end of the barrel magnifies the problem...but why buy a gun with a threaded muzzle if you can't use it?

    The range was getting ready to close for trap when I was shooting, so I was rushing to shoot up the target. I didn't get a chance to make sure all of the takedown components are tight, action screw torque, etc. I'm going to do all that stuff before I shoot it again and will also probably remove the silencer to see if the issue goes away, but are there any other things I should check? I suppose I could teach myself to do some sort of hold where I'm not touching the forend, but that would be weird.

    takedown target - 1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  2. MihiT

    MihiT Member

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    Do what you did on #3 and 6 :)

    I have had 0 luck with stock 10/22s of every flavour, integrally supressed, stainless, blued... all well below what I expect a gun to do.
    My standard "make it how it should have been out of the factory" work is: hone/replace trigger group, trigger over-travel stop, remove barrel band and fully float the barrel, headspace the bolt, get a grown-up sized stock, preferably hogue. This brings them to "reasonable"

    The "artillery" hold (free recoil) may bring your consistency up. I have my 10/22 balanced just forward of the mag well. With the heavy trigger on them this can be a pain to not pull your shots, but with practice, it works for me.

    A good supressor will not affect point of aim and have minimal effect on harmonics, a bad supressor will do both.

    Most of those groups show vertical, which generally points to inconsistent velocities, it could be as simple as trying a few different brands of ammo to see which yours prefers.
     
  3. Thomas Mayberry

    Thomas Mayberry Member

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    The shifting of those groups would frustrate me as well. As you stated, I would try it without the suppressor as well to eliminate one variable. IMO a rifle should consistently place its group without resorting to only identical holds.
     
  4. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I have won the most matches when I didn’t feel like I was rushing things. Only time I would blame the firearm is if it wasn’t a malfunction caused be me or what I was feeding it.
     
  5. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    I don’t think I’m responsible for the POI shift. I’m definitely responsible for the group opening up.
     
  6. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I have fought POA/POI changes with different firearms over the years, different loads, environmental conditions, positions, target, how I feel, time of day....the list can go on and on.

    One of the best things I have ever done for evaluation is to remove myself from it. Separate me from it and it’s pretty repeatable.

    If you don’t change anything, they generally don’t either.

     
  7. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Two might be anecdotal but my son’s TD shifted while using a bipod and again after changing hand positions. I finally opted to zero holding the forearm as that simulates his hold while hunting.
     
  8. imac98374

    imac98374 Member

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    What’s your sight/scope setup?
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Am I missing something? It used to be understood that a takedown was unlikely to be as accurate as a solid frame. Ruger has bet that it was forgotten.

    A friend had a Savage 99 whose faults were corrected. It still has the fore end latch of its original configuration but the barrel is screwed in tight. Also a rebarrel from .303 or maybe .22 Imp, it is now a .250.
     
  10. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Leupold 4x rimfire on the factory Weaver base.
     
  11. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Luke

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    Have you followed the procedure for adjusting the barrel tensioner from the manual? I believe it states to connect the barrel and the receiver, the spin the tensioner collar tight, then remove the barrel and spin the tensioner another 1/4 or 1/2 turn tighter I believe, this is the correct tension.

    I think some people are just installing the barrel and tightening the tensioner down without the next step.
     
  12. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Yes, but I will try to tighten it even more the next time. I might make a shim so I'm not running the tensioner so far out.
     
  13. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I reread your post because I might have some “me” time this afternoon (rare these days) and have a take down 10/22. I think it’s only been shot 4 or 5 times but I do know something died with each shot.

    Any how, what range were you shooting at?

    What ammunition?

    What specifically do you mean by “slight change in hand position caused a change in POI.”?

    I might have time to test the take down version, side by side with a regular 10/22, why I am asking.
     
  14. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    One other though is what you are using for sights?

    Early SA-22’s (another takedown rifle) had dovetails in the receiver that the optic mounted to. The “irons” were both on the barrel. Pretty obvious, if there were a change it would be between the barrel and receiver. 49E30EB6-3B9A-4443-88FC-B5BABBDEA1CB.jpeg

    They later switched to drilling and tapping the barrel and using a cantilever scope mount so the scope was always aligned with the barrel, even it if wasn’t in a receiver.

    6A766500-F40A-4547-8249-C8611F85294E.jpeg

    Sights on different parts can cause problems, happens to a lot of AR-7 users too.
     
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  15. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    In other words this, while being more ridged.

    DCEA033E-3555-4EEF-A7EB-A301028FC3EE.jpeg

    Could be more susceptible to a change in alignment with the bore than this.

    A8FD6DCA-4581-4186-9E30-72B36A57CE45.jpeg
     
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  16. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    By hand position I mean depending on how far forward or back on the forend I rested it, and whether I applied rearward pressure against my shoulder.
    The scope is mounted on the receiver. I do agree that a cantilever would probably cure it.
     
  17. WrongHanded
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    WrongHanded Contributing Member

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    I don't know much about the takedown version of the 10/22. But perhaps your expectations are two high.

    My thoughts for this Ruger are the same as for my Henry AR-7. It packs small for emergencies. When you need it, you assemble it and check zero. Then don't expect too much, because it's a design of convenience, not one of precision. So maybe don't keep taking it apart and putting it back together regularly.

    There's a lot of leverage available in that setup to effect the barrel/receiver connection. Also, if you use a scope on the receiver (which you apparently do), you have to accept that any movement at the barrel/receiver connection is going to change POI. Use the iron sights instead and I bet you won't notice this issue any more. Why? The irons are on the barrel, so when it moves, they move with it.
     
  18. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    No experience with 10/22 takedowns but I did speak with the owner of one who doesn't take it down because he's fearful that after many takedowns and reassembles it might cause a problem. I asked why didn't he just buy a regular 10/22 and he said that at the time he just thought he'd use the take down feature only if he stores the gun for long periods. Could lots of repeated takedowns cause enough wear to some of the mating surfaces to cause problems like that? Just wondering.
     
  19. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    It shouldn't. Any subsequent "slop" can be eliminated using the adjustment ring.
     
  20. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I was in my teens when mom got her SA-22, I’m 46 now. That rifle is taken down for cleaning after every range trip and every hunt, dozens of times yearly and it still fits like a glove with no sign of wear.
     
  21. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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    I don't have a Ruger 10/22 takedown but I do have Rugers other takedown carbine.

    My PCC has no shift of POI at all.

    Red Dot is mounted on the receiver.
     
  22. 22250Rem

    22250Rem Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback concerning takedowns. I had no idea and never thought of that adjustment ring. I may even take down my Ruger PC Carbine in the future and when I see that guy with the 10/22 takedown I'll tell him about it.
     
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