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10mm/40 caliber?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by surjimmy, Jul 23, 2009.

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  1. surjimmy

    surjimmy Member

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    I have a Delta Elite 1911 10mm, was told today by and older gentleman who works at a local gun store that I can shoot 40 caliber out of my 10mm. He said same concept as the 38 out of a 357 mag. Does anyone have first hand experience with this?
     
  2. chrissmallwood

    chrissmallwood Member

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    No you can't shoot 40S&W out of a 10MM chambered gun unless it's a revolver that uses moon clips. It will fit but it will go too far into the chamber since it is shorter than 10MM. All that would be required would be a barrel and recoil spring change to allow the use of 40S&W.
     
  3. EMC45

    EMC45 Member

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    Both cartridges headspace on the case mouth. Like the above post states it would go in too far. I would stop listening to the "sage advice" of the older gentleman you mention. It could be hazardous to your health.
     
  4. 3pairs12

    3pairs12 Member

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    He wasn't talking about bullet diameter was he?
     
  5. surjimmy

    surjimmy Member

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    I did not listen to him, I heard what he had to say. Thought about it and posted the question. I never had any intention of trying it, was just curious.
     
  6. ROBBY.1911

    ROBBY.1911 Member

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    why is everyone being so mean. the 1911 cartridge headspaces off the extractor. you can shoot .40 without changing anything. the reason for a new barrel is to avoid chamber erosion. try Ed Brown for the best drop-in .40 barrel there is. while you are talking to EB about the barrel, run the whole idea past them. it's easier than you think.
     
  7. edelbrock

    edelbrock Member

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    As far as I know, both the 40 S&W and the 10mm headspace off of the mouth of the case so I would not recommend it.
     
  8. glocks rock

    glocks rock Member

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    I've heard people shooting 40's out of a 10mm but wouldn't recommend it. The round head spaces on the mouth and if you shoot a 40 in a 10 , the only thing holding the round in place is the extractor. It can be done but it's stupid to do it.
     
  9. tlen

    tlen Member

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    Isn't 10mm 40 caliber ?.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  10. JCisHe

    JCisHe Member

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    Tien, no.
     
  11. Faitmaker

    Faitmaker Member

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    Tlen,
    The diameter is roughly the same. The OAL is different.
     
  12. SHOOT1SAM

    SHOOT1SAM Member

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    Not quite sure whether you're being serious or sarcastic. :confused: 1911's do NOT headspace off of the extractor; as glocks rock stated, they headspace on the mouth of the case and if only extractor is holding the cartridge, bad things can happen.

    Just to clarify, the diameter isn't roughly the same, it is exactly the same (.400-it's also the same diameter of bullet for the 38-40 Winchester cartridge).

    Sam
     
  13. CWL

    CWL Member

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    He was confusing the history of 10mm and .40SW.

    10mm was the original bullet caliber made famous in Miami Vice in the 1980's and subsequently chosen by the FBI as their duty ammo. The 10mm full-power loads were too "powerful" for female and smaller male agents to handle, -so the FBI started issuing lighter loads. This was called the "10mm light". It was a regular 10mm cartridge filled with less propellant.

    Eventually, S&W figured-out that an underloaded 10mm casing made no sense, and they devised new shell to hold the same bullet & amount of propellant inside a shorter brass casing. Since 10mm roughly equals .40 caliber in diameter, they named the new bullet ".40SW". This was the birth of the .40SW bullet and it did very well in duplicating the same ballistics as the 10mm "light" but in a much smaller & cheaper gun.

    when .40SW came out, it was touted as the "perfect" gun and would replace both 9mm and .45ACP pistols. Actual results in the streets show that it still depends on shot placement and not caliber of bullet.
     
  14. sqlbullet

    sqlbullet Member

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    Shoot1Sam is exactly right. And if you want an idea of what can happen when you shoot .40 S&W in a 10mm chamber, look here.

    The sole exception to this is the Springfield Omega/Peter Stahl 1911's which featured dual extractors. Because of the dual extractors, these guns effectively did headspace off the rim. The impact of the firing pin would not push the cartridge deep into the chamber before detonating the primer pellet.

    One other point of clarification. The FBI used the '10mm light' from day one. All there ballistics testing, even before adoption, was using 180 grain bullets in the 980-1000 fps range. The complaints were about difficulty in controlling the S&W 1076 due to it's large size. To solve this problem, they moved to the Glock, with a similar grip circumference, less mass, shooting the same projectile at the same speed, although from a different cartridge. Can we all say politcal?
     
  15. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    The similarity is more like the 9mm and 380 -- 9mm kurz. So, it's 10mm and 10mm kurz or 10mm short :D They are not interchangeable ;)
     
  16. Taterhead

    Taterhead Member

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    tlen,

    The 40 S&W and 10mm auto shoot the exact same caliber projectile. Projectiles can be loaded in either case. For reloading, there is no distinction in the bullets that you buy for 40 S&W or 10mm auto. The difference between the two rounds are the case dimensions, pressure limits, and primer size. The projectiles are identical BUT THE 40 S&W SHOULD NOT BE SHOT IN A 10MM AUTO!
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  17. JCisHe

    JCisHe Member

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    Tater,

    That's not much difference haha!
     
  18. Dave T

    Dave T Member

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    It is frightening how much bad information has been put out in this thread. I'm not sure where to start.

    The FBI didn't start with the down loaded 10mm. The original Norma rounds were a 170g bullet at about 1350 fps and a 200g at something like 1200 fps. Federal down loaded it at the FBI's request and you can still get that "FBI" load if you buy Federal 10mm Hydra-shoks.

    And speaking of the FBI they never used the Glock 20 (10mm). After the debacle they made of the 10mm choice they eventually ended up with a 40 caliber Glock but they are the G23 & G22, their current issue weapons.

    As someone already corrected, the 45 ACP does not head space on the extractor but rather on the case mouth in the chamber, just as the 40 S&W and the 10mm do.

    And, as already corrected, the 10mm and the .40 caliber are exactly the same (speaking of the bullet of course).

    Good grief,
    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2009
  19. BlindJustice

    BlindJustice Member

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    Jeez,

    Some CARTRDGES have a common Calilber

    10mm Auto & .40 S&W as well as some other
    CARTRIDGES use a .401 Bullet.
    and they as well as most semi-auto cartridges
    headspace on the case mouth.

    10MM Auto was created by a Swedish arms firm,
    I believe it was Norma. The development of the .40
    S&W was instgated by the FBI for a shorter cartridge so that it would fit in the same magazine well length as the 9mm Luger so that LEOS of average or below average hand size found it more confortable to use.

    Do your homework people

    Randall
     
  20. David E

    David E Member

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    Well, not quite.

    The FBI didn't "instigate" it. They did not tell S&W to come up with the shorter case. Instead, two engineers at S&W did. Once the FBI mandated lighter loads, the engineers realized that they could duplicate that same bullet weight at the same speed with a shorter case. This allowed the .40 S&W to be housed in the 9mm sized platform instead of the longer/larger ones required for the 10mm.

    The FBI screwed up. They are on record saying that the .45 acp has been taken as far as it can go, so they dismissed it. Since the whole reason for the change in the first place was the "failure" of a 9mm bullet, there was no way they would stay with the caliber. (they preferred to blame a bullet that performed exactly as advertised instead of the sloppy/lazy techniques used by the agents)

    Of the cartridges availabe at the time, the 10mm seemed to meet their stated needs....until they found that in the full loadings, many agents could not handle it. They then specified a 180 grain JHP @ 950.........which, curiously, was remarkably close to the 185 grain JHP @ 950 that was available for the .45 acp.....but they'd already burnt that bridge.
     
  21. surjimmy

    surjimmy Member

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    Just in case there's a person new to guns, and don't understand all this technical mumbojumbo. Do Not shoot a 40 caliber out of a gun that is chambered for a 10mm
     
  22. Holden3125

    Holden3125 Member

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    This question might generate some flack, but I'd like to know. Since this thread is a little old I'll give some background for my question.

    The original question was essentially, can a 40sw cartridge be fired from a 10mm pistol.

    Robby1911 said "...the 1911 cartridge headspaces off the extractor. you can shoot .40 without changing anything. the reason for a new barrel is to avoid chamber erosion..."

    Shoot1Sam said "...1911's do NOT headspace off of the extractor; as glocks rock stated, they headspace on the mouth of the case and if only extractor is holding the cartridge, bad things can happen."

    sqlbullet said "Shoot1Sam is exactly right. And if you want an idea of what can happen when you shoot .40 S&W in a 10mm chamber, look here.

    The sole exception to this is the Springfield Omega/Peter Stahl 1911's which featured dual extractors. Because of the dual extractors, these guns effectively did headspace off the rim. The impact of the firing pin would not push the cartridge deep into the chamber before detonating the primer pellet."

    The answer to my question may very well be the last line of sqlbullet's comment, but I'd like clarification. So the question is, why is a single extractor holding the shell not enough to allow it to effectively headspace off the rim?

    Thanks...
     
  23. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Yes, you can shoot .40 S&W out of a 10mm gun.
    Both shoot exactly the same .400" jacketed bullets.

    But only IF the gun happens to be a S&W 10mm revolver using moon clips.

    In that case, shooting .40 S&W and 10mm interchangably is perfectly fine.
    (Like the old guy said about .38 Spl & .357 Mag.)

    Not in auto pistols though.
    1911's do not headspace on the extractor!
    (Well, they can if encountering a too short case, but not intentionally by design all the time.)

    rc
     
  24. kanook

    kanook Member

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    4 choices to be safe
    1) buy a revolver
    2) buy a Springfield Omega
    3) buy a firearm that you can do a barrel swap
    4) buy two firearms, one in each caliber (I like this idea the best)
     
  25. dagger dog

    dagger dog Member

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    0.004" = 0.10 mm round it up to 10mm = .40 cal.
     
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