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10mm auto as a mountain gun?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by KBintheSLC, Aug 5, 2008.

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  1. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    So, last week I bought my dad the Glock 20 he has wanted for a while. I have also been shopping around for a good wilderness gun for myself in the meantime (possibly a wheel gun in 44 mag). Well, my father and I got to talking, and he said "why don't you just get yourself a Glock 20 for the wilderness?". Well, I had not considered it before but he presented some good arguments. The 10mm round delivers over 600 ft/lbs of juice, and it does it 15+1 times before I have to reload. Also, the Glock platform is durable and weather resistant, and I am very used to shooting a Glock. Also, the Glock 20 weighs about half as much as a big .44.

    Now on the other hand, I am concerned about the availability of 10mm ammo. It is not nearly as popular as .44 magnum, and I hardly have any options when buying locally. The other issue is price. High end ammo for 10mm costs about the same per round as .44 mag, but the .44 mag delivers 2X the punch for the price. Also, since Glock is the only firm to make a really usable 10mm auto, is there a risk of the caliber falling off the face of the earth?

    I always thought that a big wheel gun was the only true "mountain gun" worthy of carrying in the deep woods. However, I am starting to wonder if this 10mm auto idea is a better alternative.

    Thoughts? Thanks.
     
  2. M203Sniper

    M203Sniper member

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  3. treeprof

    treeprof Member

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    A G-20 is my lower 48 woods gun, incl. some past hiking in your neck of the woods. DoubleTap Ammo is located in SLC and I've seen it stocked there at Impact Guns. Like everything else, a wide array of 10mm ammo is available over the internet. Most bigger shops will have 10mm Win Silvertips, which is an upper mid-/lower full-power load.
     
  4. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Semis are just-as if not more reliable than revolvers nowadays. Add in the fact that most semi malfunctions can be corrected by Operator v. a malfunctioning revolver probably needs 'smithing. All adds up to a semi making sense in "mountain gun" application.

    I like revolvers, but I think that the "outdoors = revolver" feeling is more of romantic notion carried-over from olden times than anything else.
     
  5. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    A pistol that is the ballistic equivalent of the .41mag, carries 10 more rounds than a S&W Model 57 or 58 (N frame .41) while weighing 10 to 12 oz less?

    No, I can't for the life of me see how such a pistol would be a worthy backwoods gun. :neener:
     
  6. jonboynumba1

    jonboynumba1 Member

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    Been thinking the same thoughts lately...

    hunted with a .460 rowland a bit last year and carried it with me all season as "backup" for the rifle (ever had a deer RIGHT under your stand and realized there is no way you can get it in your sights with your rifle-LOL)
     
  7. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    last time I checked the 10mm was close, but not quite as burly as the .41mag. The .41mag will launch heavier bullets faster and with considerably more muzzle energy.
    Well, if what Buffalo Bore and Double Tap say on their websites is true.

    However, its hard to argue with less weight and more than twice the capacity.
     
  8. sqlbullet

    sqlbullet Member

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    Double Tap is located in Cedar City, UT, 200 miles south of Salt Lake. I have not checked impact guns for availability of ammo. Ordering online is not a hassle once you have a DL on file with Dbl Tap. Double Tap has a really nifty 230 gr Equalizer load that seems like it would be a good trail load. It packs a 135 gr jhp over a 95gr lead ball. I would think a magazine alternating these with their 230 gr hard cast would make a great all around wilderness defense package.

    Georgia Arms will ship 1000 rounds of 180 grain to your door in SLC for about $300 (exactly 300 to my house in Holladay about 10 months ago). This is new brass, FMJ ammo. The brass is great for reloading.

    Which is the final point to consider. Reload. You will save a ton of money allowing more time at the range. Sportsmans Warehouse in Midvale has pretty good prices on components. Gallenson's in downtown SLC has a good supply of presses and tools in stock usually. They also have some guys on staff you actually know something about reloading.

    Clean97GTI is correct. You won't touch the ballistics you can achieve with a heavy 41 mag load with the 10mm. But, with 16 rounds up the pipe you can deliver 10,256 ft lbs with a Glock 20 versus the 6,444 ft lbs you can deliver in 6 shots of 41 mag.

    (Before the storm rages, yes, I know that adding the energy for all the shots together is not really a valid methodology.)
     
  9. David E

    David E Member

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    If you reload and/or plan ahead, you'll have enough 10mm ammo with you, so you shouldn't need to worry about Joe's Bait Shop having 10mm ammo.

    The ballistic comparison between the 10mm and .44 isn't the issue. The issue is, does the properly chosen 10mm load have enough power to do the task(s) you envision?

    I've gone thru this very dilemma when deciding what gun I wanted to "cash in" my Glock certificate for. I decided on the G-20 for probably many of the same reasons your Dad gave you.

    I have a 165 Gold Dot JHP @ 1350 fps, which ought to stop anything I'd need to shoot in my woods.

    .
     
  10. Gunz

    Gunz Member

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    While I love the 10mm, I think most realistic comparisons will rank it closer to a 357 Mag. Not that is anything to dismiss.

    I love the fact that a Glock 20 will pack 15+1 of 357 Mag equivalent loadings for defensive purposes.

    Still, for a backup gun, it is great. For a primary gun in known dangerous predator country, the primary should be a rifle or shotgun with slugs.
     
  11. David E

    David E Member

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    My 165 grain is 643 ft lbs to about 529 ft lbs for a 158 grains. The .41 cranks out over 900 ft lbs. :eek:

    I'd rather shoot the 10mm than the .357 or that .41, myself.

    .
     
  12. skywarp_

    skywarp_ Member

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    Here's all the evidence you need.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    The 10mm is a hard hitting, deep penetrating round and is well suited to animal defense, save the rally nasty critters that are best dealt with using 12 ga slugs or big bore rifles. I carry either my S&W 1006 or my Witness Compact in the woods and have plenty of faith in the round's ability to put down an aggressive black bear or cougar (if I were actually able to see it before the attack).

    The 10 cannot compete with the likes of .44 mag, .460 XVR, .50 AE, .500 S&W, etc. But none of those carry 16 rounds in a 3 pound package like the Glock 20 or Tanfoglio Witness.
     
  14. pps

    pps Member

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    skywarp_

    Do all the 10mm rounds come with the little mushroom cloud in the picture?:)

    If I carried a semi auto for hiking, It would be the 10mm
     
  15. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    The next pistol on my wishlist is a EAA Witness (large frame) with both the 10mm and .40SW barrels. And the skinny wooden grips.

    There's a couple of rifles ahead of it in priority, but it depends on what I find a good deal on next.
     
  16. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    It's nice that the Glock 20 carries as many rounds as it does, and I love the pistol. I have a safe full of guns and my son took a G20 on a recent trip he took (it is one of his favorites as well when the chips are down). That being said, I have been in the path of both lions and bears when they have been charging and you won't get half of those bullets out of the barrel generally.

    Standing right beside me, my son stopped a charging bear with one shot this past spring at twenty feet. With a G20, he might have been able to get a few rounds off but I doubt it would have stopped the bear dead in it's tracks and I feel he wouldn't have been able to get more than maybe 3 shots with an auto loading pistol.
     
  17. Arkady

    Arkady Member

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    .357 magnum (or better) ballistics out of a 15+1 autoloader? Sounds like a great woods gun to me.

    That's why I bought mine. Eaa Witness Elite Match 10mm, here.
    Something about a 155g@1400fps GoldDot load just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling.
     
  18. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Great feedback folks... much appreciated. I am beginning to believe that the G20 will be more than sufficient for the issues I may encounter here in the Rockies. As for ammo, reloading is not really an option at this point... I live in an apartment, and space is growing scarce... someday when I have a garage. Nonetheless, I can always order a case of ammo online and call it good. It sounds like this cartridge is here to stay.
     
  19. sophijo

    sophijo Member

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    primary mountain gun

    +1 long-gun
     
  20. JImbothefiveth

    JImbothefiveth Member

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    You can also get a g20 with internal compensator, since you'll probably want followup shots.http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm They're known as the "C" versions.

    I think it has almost as much energy as a .44 magnum. Here's who makes the conversions. http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/


    Make sure you use the right kind of slugs, your average deer slug probably won't do.
     
  21. Cocked & Locked

    Cocked & Locked Member

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    go for it...

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    Unless you had the full auto version (requiring a very firm grip.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX8jt3bp48k

    Just imagine that as a bear gun. You could get the rounds off. :neener:
    Inside of 30 feet you could probably unload the entire magazine accurately if you chose to. That much firepower and you could also wait even longer before resulting to lethal force and still be confident in the results. Meaning more bears should not have to be shot in defense.

    Most full auto glocks have around a 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire.
    That is 20 rounds per second.

    The things you could have done pre-1986.
     
  23. NonConformist

    NonConformist member

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    Id rather have a longarm in a suitable caliber, but I am comfortable w/ a .45 and dang sure would be w/ a 10mm

    10mm is a beast!
     
  24. Jst1mr

    Jst1mr Member

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    Not me...in bear country I prefer a 360 gr FP at 1900 fps out of my .460S&W Mag...but that's not for the faint of heart!!!! Also, you get the opportunity for follow-up shots while the bear is stumbling around senseless and hairless from the muzzle blast! ;);)
     
  25. LongRider

    LongRider Member

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    Marlin 45/70 takes them all down...oh HAND gun yeah 10mm works
     
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