10mm Failure with Damage

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by **Brian19**, May 6, 2021.

  1. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    Damaged my Kriss Vector today. Here the details:

    180 gr RMR FMJ
    8.8 grains of Longshot
    Brass on its 3x firing
    Upon making the round, or sizing the brass, it did not plunk due to bulge. It was then run through the Lee bulge buster, loaded and passed a plunk test.
    Bullet exited the barrel.

    I’ve always been suspect of running bulged brass through the bulge buster and I’m thinking this the root cause resulting in case head separation.
     

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  2. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I highly doubt a bulge buster caused that, though running loaded ammo through a bulge buster might have contributed a small amount. Looks more like an out of battery issue than anything a bulge buster could directly cause.
     
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  3. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    I wonder if this is due to the cartridge wall “sticking” a la MP5 fluted chambers...
     
  4. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    The reason I was always suspect about the bulge buster was I always felt if the brass was weakened by a bulge, the bulge buster is not going to fix that weakness. I can’t say for certain I ran it through loaded or unloaded. 95% of what is run through is yet to be loaded because I usually gauge the brass before loading so I can bulge bust the empty cases. But some get through and I bulge bust them loaded
     
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  5. drband

    drband Member

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    Hogdon Longshot data lists 8.2gr as the max with a 10mm 180gr FMJ. https://shop.hodgdon.com/reloading-data-center
    Closest bullet I could find in the data 080EAE19-A61D-4BE6-BEDD-08F0367F6C87.jpeg

    Who’s data are you using?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  6. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    10mm-reloaded.com

    Here are some pictures of spent cases from this load, which did not give me alarm that it was too hot.
     

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  7. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    And also Lee’s manual
     

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  8. drband

    drband Member

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    Look at the max data on Hogdon and the max data on Lee —something does not add up.
    Hope you figure it out!
     
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  9. PO2Hammer

    PO2Hammer Member

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    Lee used to have a warning with the Bulge Busters about the bulged areas not being as strong as new brass, and that the old bulged area could end up over the feed ramp again and be a potential hazard.

    Your other spent rounds look fine, at least the primers.
     
  10. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Bulge buster = gun buster IMO.

    As much as it pains a skinflint like me, maximum loads from my Glock 20 get left where they land. I could probably get a second full power loading from the ones fired in my S&W 1006, but they get tossed into a box that gets fired one more time at low 40 S&W speeds and then left behind. Having a Glock frame split in my hand is an experience I don’t wish to have again.
     
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  11. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    What’s the head stamp?
     
  12. BJung

    BJung Member

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    I've had a KBoom with a G20 using brass that was resized 3x. The Lee Factory Crimp Die was used to remove the bulge. But, as best of what I remember, stress marks were already showing from discoloration even though I resized the brass. It short, the case should have been tossed. I hope you still have your fingers. I do. If I see a brass that shows excessive wear and can split, I toss it.
     
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  13. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    Winchester
     

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  14. swg1

    swg1 Member

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    Mixed range pick ups of unknown origin? Sort of rare for 10mm for the most part. Anyhow, that was a spendy toy to dynamite and you have my sympathy.

    FYI, that load is also 1.3 grain above my Hornady manual max.

    Many years ago, I came close to a similar experience and never did figure out why. Was a low end 9mm load out of Speer #10. Made my Hi-Power shoot like a 357. Pot bellied the brass and the pistol never shot "right" or as accurately afterwards. Pulled charges were correct. Brass was once fired, good tension (no set back). Just lucky.
     
  15. GooseGestapo

    GooseGestapo Member

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    Looks to have failed from firing out of battery. I had a slam fire with an M1 Garand that looked like that, except writing on case head was flattened.
     
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  16. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    Here’s a better picture of the case stuck in the camber. Also, frequently, with this load, it does not hold the last round bolt hold open. I thought this was indicative of it being on the lighter side for the gun, but maybe it was too hot that’s why bolt hold open wouldn’t catch? I see where by some load data, I’m beyond max load, yet not for others. And the brass doesn’t look like it’s over pressure with these loads.
     

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  17. **Brian19**

    **Brian19** Member

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    Yeah...purchased “once fired” brass on line
     
  18. Otto

    Otto Member

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    So what are you doing different next time?
     
  19. conan32120

    conan32120 Member

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    does the possibility exist that that a different powder from a previous cartridge loading had accumulated in the drop tube of your measure and that the mix of the two types of powders caused a high pressure spike?
     
  20. ACES&8S

    ACES&8S Member

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    My sympathies, but it could have been worse of course. I came to a place in reloading semi auto pistols
    where someone came up with Bulge Buster as an option for 45acp when I was having doubts about the
    standard resizing due to the way the cases were obviously out of shape.
    It was about that time I handed all 9mm-40cal-45acp over to my Son, he uses the Bulge Buster & has
    never had a problem with it that I know of, but my 2 cents, if you have to use a bulge buster, there
    must be a case reaction that weakens it in some way.
    I just never could make a semi pistol accurate enough, I was into just mass numbers of loads then shoot
    them away in no time.
     
  21. Ohen Cepel
    • Contributing Member

    Ohen Cepel Contributing Member

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    I buddy had his Kriss blow up on him a few years ago. The issue was with the gun firing out of battery and Kriss sent him a new one. Maybe he'll chime in with info on his experience.
     
  22. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I agree, an excessive bulged case might have weakened it but it would have to be super bulged and even then I have a hard time seeing a case head separation like this if its in a fully supported chamber and the bolt locked in battery. Brass is a very ductile metal and the bulge would only weaken a part of the web. Your picture especially the later one still looks like it was not fully in the chamber when it went off. The way the web of the case is splayed out on the face of the barrel seem to indicated it was not fully in the chamber. I might be wrong from the limited pictures this seem possible.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  23. NWcityguy2

    NWcityguy2 Member

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    Did you do a load work-up over a chronograph?
     
  24. EricBu

    EricBu Member

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    Kabooming Vectors are absolutely nothing new. You didn't cause this, they regularly do it with factory ammo. My 9mm Vector blew up on Factory Federal HSTs. Just normal plinking. Wasn't bump firing, wasn't even rapid firing. Personally, I think their design isn't quite ready for prime time. I RMA'd mine, and they rebuilt it without complaint. I told them it fired out of battery, they said ok, we'll repair it. When mine went, I was glad I had a foregrip on it....or I would have lost some fingers. I sold mine after it was repaired, and it's on the list of things I'll never own again.

    Edit: After looking at your pics....yours was clearly an OOB fairlure, the same as mine. Sure, if your brass wasn't plunking, it could have failed to fully seat in the chamber...but that does NOT excuse the gun design. Yours also was not even close to as dramatic as mine. When mine went, the bolt blew apart, the magazine blew apart, and the mag spring went through my boot. I also had pieces of polymer embedded in arm. Kriss has known their guns have a problem for at least a decade and continue to sell them without any warning. If you google "my Kriss Vector blew up" or "My vector fired out of battery" you'll find hundreds and hundreds of posts. There are basically two kinds of Vector owners: Those who's guns kaboomed, and those who's guns haven't kaboomed yet. The root cause is that they cannot tolerate any ammunition problem, or feed problem. If anything causes that round not feed completely, the gun will fire out of battery every time. Basically every Vector out there is a grenade waiting for that inevitable bad round, whether factory or reload...if you shoot it enough, it will eventually happen.
    kriss2.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  25. Jonesy814

    Jonesy814 Member

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    I have noticed in general that when Lee data seems to indicate a higher max charge than most other data that the OAL in the Lee data is quite a bit longer.
     
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