10mm nuclear option

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by GunTech, Sep 7, 2007.

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  1. CZ57

    CZ57 member

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    I hear ya! I won't ever buy anything like that either, and I'm a bit miffed that CZ has Dan Wesson producing nothing but the SuperMag length frame. Another rule of thumb is that if you can't kill it with a .44, you need a rifle, but The .460 Rowland was an exceptional concept. The .460 Rowland round is far superior to the 10mm, and the Dan Wesson revolver made for it was a typical .44 size framed revolver. It allows you to shoot .45 ACP, .45 Super, .460 Rowland and .45 Win Mag from the same 4" revolver. The ballistics for .45 Win Mag are better than a factory loaded .44 magnum round from a 4" barrel. Have you considered the Ruger Alaskan? .454 or .44 Magnum. With the .454, you could handload .45 Colt with 30,000 CUP data that will allow you to shoot heavier pills than a .44 Mag for a bit more stopping power.;)http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdResults?function=famid&famid=7&variation=Alaskan%AE&bct=Yes&type=Revolver

    Ruger has also recently introduced a 4" Redhawk in .44 Magnum, and there isn't a published .44 Magnum handload the Ruger can't handle.http://www.ruger-firearms.com/redhawk44/index.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2007
  2. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    Energy is not the point with bears, sure, you need it, but a heavy slow pill in a 10mm or bigger caliber beats a light fast pill in a 357mag. I don't want this to degrade into a caliber war...please. I just want to express a point. The heavier pill will penetrate deeper even though it's not moving as fast. This is why a small caliber rifle with an uberfast bullet (22-250 for example) is a poor choice compared to a Marlin guide gun in 45-70. When stopping big, dangerous game, the pills get much bigger, they need to be. The extra weight is needed for penetration.

    Here is a comparison for clarification pulled from Winchester's website. Energy is not the key, energy with the mass is, for penetration purposes.

    22-250 (64 grain bullet)
    100yds v=3500fps E=1741 ft-lbs

    45-70 Government (300 grain bullet)
    100yds v=1558fps E=1616 ft-lbs

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2007
  3. CZ57

    CZ57 member

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    The heavier pill on its own merit isn't any more significant. Try comparing a 180 gr. .357 and a 180 gr. 10mm. They're the same weight, so do you know what Sectional Density means? Okay then, tell me which one is going to penetrate deeper, and with the added energy of the .357 Magnum . . .;)

    Keep it simple, compare them at the same exact velocity. BTW, you might want to see how mass is actually defined. It's not as simple as weight.
     
  4. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    Many bears in Texas?
     
  5. CZ57

    CZ57 member

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    No, but there's a brain or 2 mr. .223 Vs .45-70!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2007
  6. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Can we keep it civil please?
     
  7. wally

    wally Member

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    CZ57, You are exactly correct, I should have said 10mm is close enough to .357 magnum as that is what its original design was looking to achieve -- .357 magnum power levels in a 1911 sized autoloader.

    --wally.
     
  8. Scottmkiv

    Scottmkiv Member

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    There are more than a few people reporting loads exceeding 1000 ft lbs with 10mm through a 6 inch barrel. Of course, that is with lighter bullets that wouldn't be appropriate for bear.
     
  9. Clark

    Clark Member

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    I have tried to see how much power I can get out of a 10mm, as I have with dozens of other cartridges.

    A) The first limitation was the case support, as I got case bulges right about the maximum published loads.
    B) I got an aftermarket barrel with better case support.
    C) Then the limitation was the case. The brass is thin between the extractor grove cut and large primer pocket.
    Working within the limitations of the 10mm case, I found 200 gr bullets and hand weighed 800X powder triple pre compressed into the case before introducing the bullet, followed by loaded ammo resizing, to give the most power.
    ..The problems with that:
    ..1) 800X is a pain to meter
    ..2) Triple compression takes lots of time per round.
    ..3) 800X burning flakes attack paint.


    I have also experimented with STEEL, Blue Dot, N105, LONGSHOT, AA#9, 3N37, Power Pistol, 135 gr, 150 gr, 155 gr, and 180 gr.

    CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

    from my notes:
     
  10. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    Do you use a really long drop tube?

    I'm surpised about poor case head support, as the first 10mms were made from cut down 308 cases. Have they reduced the case web thickness? This is my first 10mm since the first 1076s came out in th early 90s.
     
  11. Clark

    Clark Member

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    McNett asked about that too.
    I invented a process called "double compression, where the powder gets compressed in the case before the bullet is introduced.

    It can be compressed in another press. Another bullet in a bullet puller or a pin gauge in a bullet puller or an M die could be used.

    When the powder in compressed, then more powder can be added.

    This goes on until the correct amount of powder is in the case and compressed far enough so the seating of the bullet will not squish the bullet.

    The the bullet is seated.

    Then I learned that the black powder guys invented the same process and gave it the same name.


    The only thing that comes close to the 10mm case for weakness is the American large primer pocket 7.62x39mm cases.

    I have made a 10mm case from a 30-30 case, but there is not much space for powder left.
     
  12. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    Clark, would you please post the speed for that barnburner round? I'm not brave enough to give it a try myself for I've read some your threads of damaged firearms. However, thank you for being willing to push the limits beyond the average reloader. It's also reassuring to know that the limits to "problems" are 82% over the published max in this case. It gives me some confidence that touching near the top of published loads is not as dangerous as one might think.

    With the appropriate background, I understand these manufacturers are putting healthy safety factors in place for consumer safety. With your results, it appears that safety factor, in this case, is beyond what the case can hold in one throw. Good stuff to know. As for Bullseye and Power Pistol, a double throw can easily fit in any pistol round I've loaded thus far and just inherently makes me a bit nervous by default.

    Be safe.
     
  13. Clark

    Clark Member

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    I have shot 3 chronographs with hot handloads in handguns.

    All I have for hot handgun loads is .380, 9mm, 38 sp, 45acp, and 45 Colt velocities.

    I have LOTS of rifle data, I am a much better shot with rifles.
     
  14. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    You're a much better shot than I am. I've managed to get the diffusers once, and diffuser support rods once. Haven't managed a body shot, yet. My guess is that with practice I'll do it some day.
     
  15. Zerstoerer

    Zerstoerer Member

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    How about 20 rounds of 5,7mm out of a FN Five-seveN?

    Has anybody tried it on a pig or bear yet?

    Just wondering...
     
  16. GunTech

    GunTech Member

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    I had to shoot a rabbit 3 times with my FiveseveN before it dropped. All body shots.
     
  17. pinkymingeo

    pinkymingeo Member

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    You should have used one of those 800X loads. Two rounds would probably have done that rabbit, instead of three.
     
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