Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Armored farmer, May 13, 2021.
I like the grip safety!
10 mm, 6”, 1911 TRP from Springfield Armory:
Despite my preference for revolvers, dreaming about this one since it came on the market. Unfortunately, get it here is mission impossible.
The .357 or GP are probably the most practical of the lot since the 15rnd capacity of the 10s double stack frame isn't any use here, and both it and the 44mag are bigger and heavier.....but I LIKE carrying the 10 for some reason.
I don't want to come across as pedantic but I'll throw it out there only because you mentioned t twice- the 10mm is not a .40 Super! The .40 Super uses a .45 Win Mag case necked down to 10mm. But I agree that if there was a broader selections of firearms chambered for .40 Super it could be an excellent woods gun, just a smidge better than 10mm.
Here are tests from Glock, 6" barrel:
Very impressive, quite close to 41 magnum.
Blasphemy to say 38.40 is a 10mm, just plain BLASPHEMY, the reloading gods are rolling over in their graves, whats this world coming to...Buy Em Books and Send them to School and then they turn on you...Blasphemy...
I have several 357 mags and the baby 5 shot gets the easy ride in woods more than the 686 or 19 4” just simple due to size but all best are off during hunting season I carry the delta elite every time loaded with 180 xtp over long shot powder @ 1300 & 3 full 9 round mags ....44 mag has more power by slim margin 200 xtp @ 1450 out of 4” 629 but omg it’s heavy for hiking/hunting hard
I own nearly identical revolvers (6.5-inch S&W N-frames) in both cartridges. My 10mm Auto is pushing a 200gr XTP at 1250 fps and is pretty close to a max load. I'm shooting a 240gr XTP at 1370 fps in the 44 Mag and I am not even pushing 44 Mag to its full potential. There are shooters out there shooting 300+ gr bullets at over 1300 fps from moderate length 44 mag revolvers (5"-8"). 10mm Auto has a lot of nice characteristics but being only a "slim margin" behind 44 Mag in the mass and energy department is not one of them. When both cartridges are loaded with heavy for caliber bullets and to SAAMI max pressure the 10mm Auto tops out at ~220gr and ~750 ft-lbs of energy, the 44 Mag will push over 300 gr bullets and easily approach and even exceed 1200 ft-lbs of energy.
mcb - why is it that people tend to ignore physics when touting "their" cartridge? KE=1/2 mv2 is a constant irrespective of one's preferences. The 10mm, within SAAMI limits, can never approach a .44 magnum. At least not in this universe. The 10mm is a good cartridge, but it is definitely NOT a .41 or .44 magnum.
I've tried to point this out in the past, and sometimes I can convince a person and sometimes it falls on deaf ears.
The 10mm compares closely to 357 Magnum, but a 41 or 44 it is not.
The deer and pigs I kill with mine don't seem to understand ballistics. lol
That's what we aim for when we neck it down to 9mm.
I'll have to check, but if I recall correctly - we manage to approximate a .357 Magnum with lighter (120+ grain) bullets (this is supposedly an extremely effective mankilling Gold Standard of sorts, highlighted by extreme tacticulosity).
Don't get me wrong, I love the 10mm, more than the 41 or 44; but it is not on the same level of power as those.
Not much ground isn’t covered between 9mm and 10mm. Those two cartridges along with 22LR and I wouldn’t feel underserved for my needs.
We get that you don’t like the 9mm Parabellum but it’s hard to argue with a cartridge that has stood the test of time FAR better than all others save 22LR. Disagreeing with the merits of a 120 year old cartridge that’s been through countless wars and that happens to be the greatest seller currently is like peeing into the wind, short term satisfaction but leaves the discussion cold.
I agree. And I think the real (or best) reasons for carrying a 10mm auto as opposed to a revolver chambered in .41 Magnum or .44 Magnum are ease of carry and ammunition capacity. Nothing wrong with this tradeoff, depending on the circumstance(s).
It's not that I dislike the 9mm, I have several but it is what it is. My comment was aimed at the claims by gun writers and others that technology has made the 9mm the equivalent of the .45ACP and .40S&W, so why not the 10mm as well?
I've always took the improvements to the 9mm projectile selections as it has now made the 9mm a good/great option for threats. The 9mm projectiles of past were deep penetrators without reliable expansion or vice versa, new bullet technology (that can be applied to all projectiles) afforded the 9mm to meet criteria that was afforded in the past only to wider meplat projectiles such as the 40 and 45 ACP.
Now maybe the gun writers didn't get that point across or made the wrong interpretation of the projectile makers improvements, but it is not hard to see that the gap between 9mm and the 40/45 has significantly narrowed in performance when it comes to balancing penetration and expansion. That is the real improvement afforded to the 9mm. The 40 already hit the sweet spot on penetration and expansion even with older bullet technology as well as the 45acp. The projectile improvements did improve the 40 and 45acp, but they didn't need as much help in the same area as the 9mm gained, so the gap in performance narrowed.
I like all the service calibers (used to carry daily a 40, which is a great round), but when good controlled expansion bullets came out for the 9mm and the improvements showed up in tests it was clear that the projectile manufacturers achieved a great improvement for the 9mm where the improvement didn't mean as much to the 40 and 45acp as their projectile meplat already afforded some of those characteristics.
So to say it simply the 9mm closed the gap, quite significantly in penetration/expansion performance as compared to 40 and 45acp. So when one is taking consideration magazine capacity, firearm size, recoil, cost of ammunition for training with the improvements to the 9mm projectiles, 9mm starts to look very good as compared to 40 and 45acp as opposed to in the past the 9mm suffered from either due to poor penetration due to rapid expansion, or poor expansion and excessive penetration.
In Lucky Gunner's ballistic tests:
9mm - Winchester 147gr Ranger T-Series
5-Shot Average Depth = 18.7"
5-Shot Average Expansion = 0.74"
40 S&W - Remington 180gr Ultimate Defense
5-Shot Average Depth = 15.5"
5-Shot Average Expansion = 0.79"
45 ACP - Winchester 230gr Ranger T-Series
5-Shot Average Depth = 14.5"
5-Shot Average Expansion = 1.00"
One can see that the performance is pretty close between all three cartridges. I picked what I thought the best balance of penetration and expansion for each of the respective cartridges. As you can see the 9mm might be a touch on the over-penetration, the 40 S&W load looks like a good balance of penetration and expansion but the expansion is the same as the 9mm. The 45 ACP great expansion, but a little bit shallow on the penetration, would be better if closer to 16" if one needs to shoot through a limb and reach vitals.
So with the projectile improvements other we've been afforded decision based variables such as: cost, recoil, firearm size, and magazine capacity starts to play a greater role in decisions on cartridge when performance has been narrowed.
for me. Other's situation and circumstances can dictate a different mode of protection.
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