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10mm

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by RonGoode, Jan 8, 2004.

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  1. RonGoode

    RonGoode Member

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    Can someone educate me about 10mms?
    I tend to favor .45s but I'm thinking about moving "up" and thought that might be the next rung on the caliber ladder. Am I wrong? Can the 10mm be explained in simple terms? Thanks.
     
  2. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    In simple terms, huh? Well, compared to 45ACP loads, the 10mm are going to have smaller diameter bullets of lighter weight traveling at considerably higher velocities resulting in greater penetration and more energy.

    The 10mm is the cartridge with the most energy that you typically see in reasonable autoloaders (not talking AutoMags or Desert Eagles) and if I wanted to carry said reasonable autoloader anywhere that I might encounter something larger than a large man or a deer, a 10mm is absolutely what I would carry. For human adversaries, I really have complete faith in 9mms and 45ACPs so I might start to put 10mms in the 'slight overkill' category along with the 357 Magnum out of a 6" or longer barrel... But then, a little overkill is just the insurance some folks look for.

    And unless you are recoil shy, I wouldn't worry about the so-called 'hideous recoil' of the 10mm... Mostly over-hyped and often times by folks that have never shot one... Sure, really hot loads are going to be noticably stouter and flippier than 45ACP but that's what you get with higher energy. And another thing that gets tossed around by 10mm naysayers is the high cost of ammo... As long as you buy in relative bulk from somewhere such as Georgia Arms, it isn't bad. But I wouldn't count on being able to buy it at most Walmarts anytime soon.
     
  3. Marcus

    Marcus Member

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    The 10mm is a good next step. Lighter loads are a bit warmer than most .40 S&W loads or about equal to .45ACP. Mid range 10mm loads are roughly equal to .45ACP +Ps. Full power 10mm loads are in the hottest .357 Magnum range and about equal to .45 Super or .400 Corbon (700fpe+! ). All this out of the same gun,with factory ammo. Mild and low mid range practice loads are available from CCI,Rem.,Fed.,GA,etc. for about the same price as .45ACP. Hotter mid range loads are available from Fed.,Hornady,Winchester (the legendary 175gr. Silvertip),Corbon etc. HOT ammo is available from Corbon (180gr.JSP Penetrators),Texas Ammo, Georgia Arms, and most of all Double Tap Ammo (the 10mm specialist). *Resistance is futile*............. ;) Marcus
     
  4. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    you cannot go wrong with 40S&W,10mm or 10mm magnum.

    40S&W is getting into 600ft lbs energy range. 10mm has been their and is moving up to 700ft lbs energy. 10mm magnum :eek:
     
  5. Bren

    Bren member

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    Simple terms?

    " One call does it all. " :D
     
  6. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Member

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    Simplest terms I can put it in...

    10mm is a fan-frigging-tastic cartridge.
     
  7. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    The 10mm is the cartridge all my other ammo is jealous of.
     
  8. 9x19

    9x19 member

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    Celebrate Diversity!

    :neener:
     
  9. caz223

    caz223 Member

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    I was always happy shooting 10mm at the range, and used my 9mms for 'gaming' and shooting at steel.
    Until one fateful day when I was just having a bad day.
    Nothing would knock over the plates.
    I went from my 9mm 'just enough' loads, to my 9mm +p loads, to 357SIG, to 45 acp +p, and nothing could seem to hit the steel plates with enough authority to knock them down.
    I borrowed my buddy's 10mm G20 with his 'major' handloads.
    The first plate I hit went down like I broke it off!
    The 10mm bullets hit the plates so hard, they almost bounced back up and reset themselves!!!!!
    Similar recoil to magnum revolvers, but with good capacity, and easy mag changes.
    10mm is to .45acp as .41 magnum is to .357magnum.
    My two favorite calibers of all time are 10mm, and .41 magnum.
     
  10. stans

    stans Member

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    10mm is a great cartridge, much like the 41 Magnum. Both are great, well designed, initially well received by law enforcement, then dropped like a hot rock. Then picked up by the civilian community as a good compromise between power, portability and control. I would rate the recoil as being much like shooting full power 357 magnums through a six inch barreled revolver. Snappy, but controllable with just a little practice. It is nice to see Dan Wesson and Kimber introducing new 1911's chambered in this often ignored caliber. A 10mm can easily be converted to fire the cheaper 40 S&W round with a barrel change, maybe reduce the recoil spring rate a couple pounds, and sometimes a different magazine. You could also convert a 10mm to 357 Sig by the same means. The 10 really is a great all around cartridge and I hope its popularity continues to grow.
     
  11. Tropical Z

    Tropical Z Member

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    Hi-Point needs to make a 10mm with a compensator!
     
  12. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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  13. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    No it isn't. It can barely break 500 with the absolute hottest factory loads. See the chart linked above for details.
     
  14. FireInTheHole

    FireInTheHole Member

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    Most factory loaded 10mm isnt loaded to the cartridge's full potential.

    DoubleTap is the exception. :)

    The 10mm is one hell of a round... unfortunately that makes for a large-framed gun as well. Not very comfortable to shoot for those with smaller hands.

    Sean Smith is right about the factory loads below 500FPE...

    Now handloads... handloads can surpass some factory 10mm loads! Go here for further information.(1500fps 135gr .40s&w)

    It would be nice if doubletap began offering 1450fps 135gr loadings for the .40 as a companion load to their 1600fps 10mm 135gr loading.
    -FITH
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2004
  15. pwrtool45

    pwrtool45 Member

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    I concur with most of what everyone else has mentioned here. The 10mm is about as much autopistol as you can get without going to something impractical such as a Wildey or Desert Eagle. If I had to choose just one fullsize autopistol it'd most definitely be in 10mm.
     
  16. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    ..
    way to quote out of context
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2004
  17. FireInTheHole

    FireInTheHole Member

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    Sean Smith said:
    He didnt?:scrutiny:
     
  18. stans

    stans Member

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    Ok, so the 40 S&W can be handloaded to beat the 10mm, but I expect the 10mm could be handloaded to even higher velocities. I have not tried, I have 44 Magnum revolvers for the big stuff. I no longer see the need to hot rod cartridges. Guess I am getting old and feeling less adventurous these days.:scrutiny:
     
  19. artherd

    artherd member

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    An Elevated Position in the Bay Area, PRK
  20. agtman

    agtman Member

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    :rolleyes:

    I haven't seen any .40 loads over 600fpe, though I suppose someone, somewhere, might be treading into KABOOM! territory with a super hot 135gn .40 load.

    Georgia Arms does sell an alleged "+P+" .40S&W load, a 155gn GDHP @ 1300fps/582fpe (product # G40+P+, for those interested).

    But so what? "Close" only counts in horse shoes and tactical nuke exchanges, and the .40Swishy-Walker really isn't that close - unless you're going to cheat, like the 10mm-haters do, and focus exclusively on the 40-level 10mm "Lite" stuff.

    In terms of the available bullet-weight options and the seemingly limitless power curve to employ them, the 10mm has it WAY OVER the .40: 135gns to 220gns, launched at very benign, wrist-friendly .40 speeds or with enough horse-power to reach into near Earth orbit.

    Sean's link to the ballistic data is a good reference. And be advised that finding the hotter factory 10mm loads just ain't that difficult. Check out:

    DoubleTap;

    Texas Ammo;

    ProLoad;

    Corbon;

    Georgia Arms.

    Hornady and Winchester also offer at least one or two 10mm loads that are not merely .40-duplicates.

    :cool:
     
  21. 355sigfan

    355sigfan member

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    I see the 10mm as a good round for woods carry where bears are not a concern but other predators maybe. For selfdefense against people I prefer the 45 acp, 9mm,357 sig and 40sw. You get into the law of diminshing returns with the 10mm on people and the extra power only buys you extra recoil.
    Pat
     
  22. FireInTheHole

    FireInTheHole Member

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    agtman:

    My safe, full power 135gr reloads produce an average of 658fpe(1482fps) using published reloading data courtesy of hodgdon powders.

    For what it is worth, I am now working on a 1300-1350fps 155gr gold dot load. ~1320fps is required to achieve 600fpe. Published longshot data isnt quite there(1329fps for a 150gr XTP), but I will settle for something in the 1300fps range.

    FYI the "+P+" .40 loading from georgia arms is all marketing hype. No ammunition maker would dare exceed 35kpsi in the .40s&w. They probably just use a slow powder at max SAAMI pressure.

    The 10mm will always beat the .40s&w in terms of maximum power and in some cases accuracy, but when it comes to package size the .40 has the 10mm beat hands down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2004
  23. Bren

    Bren member

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    10mm brass is thicker and designed to handle higher presures, the 40 can't push a heavy bullet fast either.

    Light??? People have loaded 135gr 10mm to 1800FPS, RBCD goes 2447fps @ 1000lbs.

    No contest.
     
  24. WheelMan

    WheelMan Member

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    What the deal with the .40 hate?

    There seems to be something about the .40 Smith and Wesson that really sets people off. Of course 10mm out performs .40... IT'S A LONGER CASE. No body is impressed.

    if somebody mentioned .38 special in a .357 magnum thread I don't think you'd see:

    " "But so what? "Close" only counts in horse shoes and tactical nuke exchanges, and the .38" special education" really isn't that close - unless you're going to cheat, like the .357-haters do, and focus exclusively on the .38-level .357 "Lite" stuff. "


    This is getting a little off topic but my favorite bit of caliber mouth foaming is the fellows who in the same conversation call the .40 "weak" and complain about the recoil. I'm not a close personal friend of Sir Isaac Newton but I believe that if the .40 Short and Weak "huwts woo wittle wist twoo much" it probably wasn't exactly gentle on whatever pansy you shot it at.
     
  25. gunfan

    gunfan Member

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    Factually speaking..

    The bottom line is that you cannot get the .40 S&W to perform exactly like a 10, due to both higher operating pressures and case capacity. Max operating pressure for 10mm 37,500 psi. Max operating pressure for .40 S&W 35.000 psi.

    Why would you want to batter the .40 S&W pistol design with pressures outside its design perameters? I believe it to be the same reason that most people load '+P+' loads for the 9mm parabellum. They are trying to extricate perfomance that is not within the constraints (and wisdom) of current engineering. Oh, you can do it. You will, however, pay for it with an abbreviated pistol life and possible injury to the shooter.

    One great ballistic sage put it quite well, "If one wants 'magnum' performance from a handgun round, a magnum cartridge should be chosen."

    "Fools rush in, where angels fear to tread."

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2004
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