11 or 13 rounds .380 = is that a game changer ?

[FAS1]

I have pocket carried a P3AT daily for close to 20 years. Would I like something more powerful? Yes, but life is full of compromises. My G26 that I IWB carry is a compromise to my G17 that I would prefer.

I haven't looked at the LCP MAX in person yet, but I am interested in it. Increased round count and still small enough to pocket carry just might entice me to upgrade the P3AT. 10 rounds in the gun and a 12 round reload is nice. The micro 9's don't appeal to me for that role as they are still belt carry size and weight IMO.

 

[murf]

Well .. I ran out on my lunch break , drove 30mins to a Bass Pro .. and purchased one .. after calling and finding out they only had three left …
To me , the LCP II was already in my sights , and when the MAX was announced, I was all over it ..
I spent my gun money I had saved for a new
“Mini Wonder 9” of some sort …
Still waiting for my two 12 round mags to come in ,
Just a great little pistol.. light , small , great sights and the 380 ACP is a acceptable SD round ..Im sure others feel that way …

most here seem to think the ten round mag is the game changer for the new lcp max (legit). but my game changer with this gun is the increased recoil contact area over the lcp II. my lcp II is snappy and wanders left/right on recoil.

can you include a "recoil management" section in you evaluation of your new gun? i, for one, can't wait for your review.

murf

 

[Kleanbore]

For future contemplation—

I was trying to explain that it is impossible to prove a negative.

LOL knew you didn’t have proof.

I provided an example, as you requested.

Guess you never read his monthly articles

I subscribe to Claude's articles.

or saw the video you removed.

I removed nothing.

Figures, can’t make you.

What?

 

[Kleanbore]

but my game changer with this gun is the increased recoil contact area over the lcp II. my lcp II is snappy and wanders left/right on recoil.

I have wondered about that too.

 

[Buckeye63]

most here seem to think the ten round mag is the game changer for the new lcp max (legit). but my game changer with this gun is the increased recoil contact area over the lcp II. my lcp II is snappy and wanders left/right on recoil.

can you include a "recoil management" section in you evaluation of your new gun? i, for one, can't wait for your review.

murf

I was interested also about the useable sights … unusual in a pocket 380 … and yes .. it has less perceived recoil vs my TCP ..

 

[mavracer]

I provided an example, as you requested.

That hardly disproves that the successful armed defense from multiple determined attackers isn't exceedingly rare. If as some contend here that it was a coin toss there would be 100s of such events.
As with most study's I try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, because there is going to be glaring issues with any study and that is there's just too dang many variables.

 

[GEM]

Doesn't do anything for me. Is it truly pocketable or is it a brick in a big pocket? I prefer a belt holster for the 10+ semis. YMMV. If it is a belt gun, then 9mm is fine. I do have to confess that I have carried a G42 or SW 432 on my belt in a recent wave of horrible, old toot back problems. With the former, I had two extra mags on the other side in a nice Blade Tech mag pouch. Back is getting there and back to the Glock 26.

As far as the multiple attacker story. It is rare but it happens. So you make the decision. If you choose not to worry about that, pontificating on those who take the rarer risk into account is not impressive.

 

[Kleanbore]

Is it truly pocketable or is it a brick in a big pocket?

I've wondered about that too.

If it is a belt gun, then 9mm is fine.

Agree.

I do not like pants pocket carry. Jacket can work.

 

[GEM]

I never find pants pocket comfortable. I only do it when it is the only solution due to dress considerations.

 

[CapnMac]

People are hard to generalize at the best of times.
This can be especially true of hoodlums.
And, when we interact with hoopleheads, it's not on average, but specifically. And criminals tend to not be average.
Whatever or however bad people average is not really the issue is it.
If I have 7 rounds of 9x17 strapped to my ankle it's because I don't have a way to carry something else elsewhere in case I need to battle with more than my wits.
Being old (and more than passing irritable), if there's an armed conflict to be had, I'd much rather have that at a couple hundred meters than 10-25 feet.
Modern life being what it is, it might be a stretch before I could open the range to that sort of extent to prosecute it in the way I'd prefer.
That very much suggests more rounds rather than fewer.
But, I'm also likely highly biased in my opinions.

 

[CDW4ME]

this assumption of more than two attackers ACTUALLY STICKING AROUND is one of thr biggest BS story you guys push. Believe what the internet tactical gurus all you want, but don’t it’s BS. Show me anywhere a civilian was approached by two or more thugs that didn’t run from the time of shooting or the weapon was produced. I can not find any proof that supports your statements.

You can doubt this and that, but the study show, majority of pistol calibers are equal at stopping the thugs, and that is what we want the, to do! You can stick to your totems and assumptions, but don’t try to pass then off as facts.

Not on par with the “convenient threat” BS you was saying on DC, but close.

Lefty

"You guys" - I am not friends or affiliated with anyone on any forum.
I'm not pushing anything, just posting, same as you.
If you perceive me to be pushing a carry philosophy, same can be said for yourself.

I used your link, which showed it takes two hits on average to stop a singular attacker.
We do not assume just a lone attacker, nor 100% hit ratio - "proof" of either is unnecessary.
I'm not going to assume someone illogical, psychotic, or drugged enough to take action which merits use of lethal force is going to run away.

I have no idea what you are taking about in regard to "convenient threat" on DC; that doesn't sound like me, not language I use.

What you carry is of no consequence to me.

 

[CDW4ME]

With a 50% hit probability and four rounds to stop, eight fired shots gives a 50% chance of success--and a 50% chance of failure.

Thoughts on Multiple Assailants, Hit Rate & Capacity

I carry eight, and I'm not sure that's prudent.

I tried to present it so that someone carrying just a 38 snub or 7 round LCP380 might ponder carrying more.
In the example I gave of two attackers, two hits each, 50% hit ratio, with just 8 rounds one would be out of bullets.
I carry more than that; I'm not about minimums.

 

[Kleanbore]

Left Jacket pocket?

It is very unlikely that a person will be attacked on any one day. It is far less unlikely that anyone will be attacked at least once during an extended time period.

Of course, it does happen.

Should it become necessary to draw, it is likely that shooting will not be needed. But it may be.

We then have to consider the severity of the potential consequences, should worse come to worst.

That's why we carry.

I would think that one of the least likely of the serious events that anyone may face would involve an uninvited violent criminal actor popping into the car during the brief moment that the door is open for a passenger to get out.

That has happened, with tragic results.

It is awfully unlikely, but should it happen, the driver would be in a very bad way.

Would one want to mitigate the risk?

I would not want to have to use my right arm to defend myself.

It occurs to me that a pocket gun in a left jacket pocket that can be accessed while the shoulder harness is on might be a reasonable approach.

That would provide back-up for other occasions.

That .380 just might fill the bill.

 

[Buckeye63]

Doesn't do anything for me. Is it truly pocketable or is it a brick in a big pocket? I prefer a belt holster for the 10+ semis. YMMV. If it is a belt gun, then 9mm is fine. I do have to confess that I have carried a G42 or SW 432 on my belt in a recent wave of horrible, old toot back problems. With the former, I had two extra mags on the other side in a nice Blade Tech mag pouch. Back is getting there and back to the Glock 26.

As far as the multiple attacker story. It is rare but it happens. So you make the decision. If you choose not to worry about that, pontificating on those who take the rarer risk into account is not impressive.

I agree .. back problems and ofter health problems have a bearing on my carry …. If it wasn’t for lightweight handguns .. Id be ruined..
Im thankful to the gun companies that I have so many affordable options

 

[mavracer]

"You guys" - I am not friends or affiliated with anyone on any forum.
I'm not pushing anything, just posting, same as you.
If you perceive me to be pushing a carry philosophy, same can be said for yourself.

Speaking for myself I have no problem with your philosophy of carrying what you'd want in the multiple threat scenario. I question the ones who pound multiple threat scenarios to expound a 6 shot revolver over a 5 shot.
5 shot 38 vs 7 shot 380 is MEH
5 shot 38 vs 13 shot 380 is Hmm

 

[Kleanbore]

I agree .. back problems and ofter health problems have a bearing on my carry …

You are not alone!

 

[bassjam]

I used to carry a j-frame, so to me the original lcp (or Keltec P3at) with a it's super flat profile was a game changer. Adding 5 more rounds doesn't really matter much to me, especially at the expense of printing more in my jeans. Of course when I'm not carrying the lcp I've got a 6 round revolver in my waistband, so I've never been one to worry about having the capacity to take out a small hit team anyway.

 

[Kleanbore]

5 shot 38 vs 7 shot 380 is MEH

Basic math tells s that with a 30% hit rate, 7 shots give us a 67% chance of scoring two hits, vs 47% with five shots. The choice is up to the user. With a heavily clothed attacker with an arm held out between himself and the defender, the penetration of the .38 might prove critically important.

 

[Buckeye63]

A double stack 380 micro .. same premise as a double stack micro 9 …. I remember a similar conversation with the introduction of the P365

 

[CDW4ME]

Speaking for myself I have no problem with your philosophy of carrying what you'd want in the multiple threat scenario. I question the ones who pound multiple threat scenarios to expound a 6 shot revolver over a 5 shot.
5 shot 38 vs 7 shot 380 is MEH
5 shot 38 vs 13 shot 380 is Hmm

When I was limited by work clothes and could not do better I chose a LCP380 over a 5 shot snub. (Had both)
Would I have preferred 11 rounds of 380 rather than 7? Absolutely.
I'm no longer limited by work clothes which affords me the benefit of carrying a handgun I deem advantageous everywhere (Glock 19/23/32).
If one prefers a revolver, and cares what I think (that is gonna be an exclusive club), NY reload, carry two.

 

[Armored farmer]

I handled the LCPMAX at my lgs yesterday. If you like the lcp, you will love the max. Great sights, trigger safety, forward serrations, hold open on last shot, reposition slide release......and I think it will fit in the same holster as the lcp.
I will be getting my new lcpmax as soon as my bank account recovers from my last gun purchase.

In order to be content with a .380 as your edc, you must consider it a survival gun, not a duty gun.

 

[rust collector]

Bigger is better, but quantity has a quality of its own. Every handgun is a compromise. Many carry a 380ACP, and an increase in mag capacity can only help, unless it interferes with carrying or shooting the gun.

Game changer is an over-used and generally hyperbolic term, but I will be interested in user reports.

 

[GEM]

I have had several incidents (luckily didn't come to guns) that were 4 possible bad persons. Thus, the J frame is limited in those cases. It is limited in two opponents in a realistic scenario. Lots of FOF with 6 shot revolvers on the move, in the dark. You run out quickly and don't always hit your opponent.

This is an old debate. A semi with 10 and an extra mag is the cutoff unless dress limits or my back is out of kilter. Now a higher capacity 380 if it isn't really a comfortable pocket gun - doesn't interest me. I would have to shoot it to see if the recoil is significantly less, as that depends on design and if I had hand problems.

 

[murf]

You run out quickly and don't always hit your opponent.

just one opponent in this scenario? or is the j-frame capacity good for two or three opponents? six shots a piece sounds a bit much in a fof situation, hence the question.

murf

 

[GEM]

Try it. Your square range marksmanship and FOF may differ.