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11 or 13 rounds .380 = is that a game changer ?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by scaatylobo, Jul 10, 2021.

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  1. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    It surely does happen. Attackers give up after being shot anywhere in the body, after being fired at and missed, and after seeing the point of a gun, without having received wounds that are immediately disabling.

    The experts tell us otherwise.
     
  2. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    So let's simplify this, if a .380 round has adequate penetration to go deep into the chest cavity - and it has been proven that many .380 rounds do - why would a 9mm be significantly better than the .380? They are both the same size diameter bullet, and theoretical "hydrostatic shock" from pistol bullets has proven to be bunk, so what significant is gained by the extra speed of the 9mm?
     
  3. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Turn the chest 60 degrees; place an arm, with its ulna and radius bone, between the chest and the defender; and make the bullets exit through the skin of the arm.

    Add a margin for safety.

    You will prefer the 9, iff you can hit with it.

    Barriers, heavy clothing.....
     
    Gordon likes this.
  4. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    I know that this video is not a laboratory setup, but dang - a windshield? Is the .380 really so puny as to not be effective?
     
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  5. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    Expansion is the big difference between the 2 rounds.
     
  6. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    What benefit is extra expansion?
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    With expanding bullets, the big difference is penetration.
     
  8. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    If a bullet expands it does more damage.
     
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  9. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    In the cases we are refering to where we have actual results on video = your DEAD wrong.

    The streets are the only school that matters to those of us who wish to survive a deadly confrontation.

    I am sure you mean well,but imnso your wrong.

    btw,I watched a .40 S&W 165 grain H.P. stop a man ---- that man was armed with a sawed off 12 gauge and was fleeing from a home invasion.

    He managed to run to the next street and died from lung hit bled out [ I did say he RAN ].

    He obviously could have taken a few more with him had he turned and fired.
     
  10. BigAlShooter

    BigAlShooter Member

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    According luckygunner.com: 380 from a Glock 42 with Hornady Critical Defense 90gr had 13.2" of penetration and expanded to 0.52" at 910fps. The 9mm from a S&W M&P9C with Hornady Critical Defense 115gr had 13.1" of penetration and expanded to 0.50" at 1143fps.
    I'd still choose the 9mm if all things are the same, but can't really say 9 is so much better than 380.
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  11. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    btw = back on topic.

    Went to range today and another 40 rounds through the LCP Max at 9 yards.

    Magazine dump [ as fast as I could fire ] resulted in all round in the 8" area of a combat target.

    At the same distance I was able to make head shots with a full magazine firing slowly.

    I am very happy with this as a "walk about the house" or as a BUG.
     
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  12. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

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    Winchester 147gr Ranger 9mm penetrates 16.5 inches and expands to .74 nothing in 380 comes close. 9mm is much more powerful than 380 that's a given. As a backup it's fine.
     
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  13. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    The 9mm is more powerful.
    But for decades the .380 acp has been used as the primary cartridge for many agencies worldwide. And today's .380 loadings are better than ever. So why is it now only suitable for "backup"? I mean "kilt" is kilt - just how dead does something need to be?
     
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  14. The Glockodile

    The Glockodile Member

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    “My kung fu is better than your kung fu.” :rofl:

    More truth to that than we’re willing to admit.
     
  15. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    Its hard to me explain the difference between a deer and a man ..? or its hard for some people to understand the difference… ?
    Whitetail deer can run 30 miles a hour & jump 8 ft high fences …
    I could go on …:rofl:
     
  16. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Member

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    The "Game Changer" for me was not the guns available in 380 but the ammo. Before ShootingTheBull 410 did his 380 ammo tests, all of the testing that was available to me showed 380 bullets either expanding and stopping at 10 inches or less when run against the IWBA protocol, or zipping right out the back of 16 inch blocks of gelatin.

    Neither one was acceptable to me and I wouldn't carry a 380 auto.

    Now there are at least a few 380 cartridges that penetrate to 13 inches through 4 layers of denim. The Federal Hydra-Shok Deep, Lehigh Defense 380ACP 65gr Xtreme Defense, and the Precision One .380 ACP 90 grain XTP are some of those rounds.. Test results can vary but typically the XTP bullets penetrate between 13 and 14 inches through 4 layers of denim. I'm not aware of test results of these cartridges for the full battery of FBI tests.

    After I saw those test results I purchased Remington's version of the Rohrbaugh R380 - the RM380, and I carry the RM380 as a backup to my R9.
     
  17. CNobbe

    CNobbe Member

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    Was watching 48 Hours last night. The story was about whether or not a death was a homicide or self defense, but the weapon was a 380 with a single shot fired. For me, it comes down to comfort. It's hot and humid and I don't care to carry IWB, I prefer the pocket in summer so the LCP Max is a nice option. In the cold months I stick with my 43X.
     
  18. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I posted two videos where a man continued to attack after being shot. Did you watch?
    Just like deer, people may have up to 10 seconds of voluntary hostile action after being shot with lethal but non-cns hits. Its fact.
    One more example, about 1:30 in.
     
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  19. Buckeye63

    Buckeye63 Member

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    The 380 acp is what it is .. a short stubby lower pressure round .. that is adequate as a SD round .
    The 380acp can be housed in a small pistol.. a pistol that can be carried when other pistols may not be able to be carried… or can be carried as a BUG ..
    Will bullets from a 380 acp bounce off a attacker?
    Nope .. if you score multiple hits in the sternum area .. will it stop a attack .. most definitely…
    Is a 380 better than a 9mm ? .. …no …is a 380 in your pocket better than a 10mm in a safe ? Yes ..

    If you mention a 22LR , someone will mention a 32 ..if you mention a 32 someone will mention a 380 .. if you mention a 380 someone will mention a 9mm .. if you mention a 9mm someone will mention a 40S&W
    So on a so fourth… its a never ending…
    I get such a kick out of this stuff …
    I see the same things with fellows I hang with .. about trucks …. They brag about their new 3/4 to ton diesel trucks .. honestly.. they are used to haul groceries in … maybe pull a lawnmower…
    I have my Mazda B4000 2004 …fills my need and purpose… and it didn’t cost $65,000 and was paid off in 2006
     
  20. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Fewer and fewer. The 9x19 is virtually ubiquitous today.
    Some of them are indeed.
    Lower penetration.
    One can kill with a .22 short. The issue is one of how quickly an attacker is stopped.
     
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  21. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    Yes there are some big differences, how lungs function isn't one of them.
    Of course a 150# deer's lung capacity is going to be that of an Olympic class athlete, but the fact that a typical broadside will damage both and that the hunter used a 308 not a 380 hardly supports your immediate incapacitation.
    Umm you might read Perfectly Wounded by Mike Day.
     
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  22. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    I've seen 10 seconds topped with a nonfunctional heart. As already mentioned in the '86 Miami shootout Platt fought on for more than a minute with a collapsed lung.
     
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  23. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I'm just using 10 seconds because it is common.
    I was trying to help someone understand that shot through one or both lungs does not mean attacker will quit. (doesn't matter if 380/9mm/357Sig/40/45/10mm)
    In regard to 380 - if it is the best one can do - Hornady Critical Defense and Sig V Crown would be my top picks.
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
     
    mavracer likes this.
  24. plainsdrifter

    plainsdrifter Member

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    Considering most confrontations with a bad guy will be around 10ft a 7 rounder will do fine. I'd like to trade up my LCP but I just carry an extra mag.
     
  25. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    I agree 1000%. People watch too much TV and think what's scripted is what happens in real life.
    Non human animals remove the possibility of a psychological stop and they require a physical stop.
    Humans that require a physical stop exist and without a CNS hit that's a tall task for any handgun.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
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