12 Gauge 2 3/4" Ammunition for Defense/ Hunting

Preferred defense and Hunting load for 12 gauge.

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No. 1 buck for me, also known as SSG (used by quite a few PHs for dealing with wounded large cats in Africa)
 
Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.
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Of course birdshot can be lethal. It can also be non-lethal. We have anecdotes to support both scenarios. Throw a barrier and/or multiple layers of clothes into the mix and the birdshot loses some of its capacity to be lethal. The gelatin gives us a basis for comparison upon which we may make assumptions about performance, but as you note it does not ultimately simulate real life shooting scenarios. I'm not aware of any mortality statistics on shotgun use. As a standard, many folks use the FBI's minimum penetration guideline of 12" in ballistic gelatin. Birdshot falls well below the minimum standard and would be entirely inappropriate for hunting larger mammals and questionable for self defense. That said, I respect your experience and the tragedy of the victim in that case.
 
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For those of you using the Federal with FC wad in 00 buck for HD- I'm curious as to your choice : Not that its wrong, I was just under the impression that the FC wad was more beneficial for long range use.... am I missing something ?

Shotguns are the go-to long guns here. We live in a rural area on several acres, it's 51 yards from the front door to the gate across the driveway, and another 100 yards out to the road from the gate. So potentially, longer range than across the room IS a consideration.
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Thanks fred- that is a situation I could appreciate having good patterns at distance on.

Just out of curiosity, what are your patterns looking like at 50 yards ?
 
The big issue with buckshot at extended ranges gets to be penetration, not patterns. In other words, with buckshot it's possible to run out of penetration before you run out of useful pattern, at a distance. That's another reason for 00 or 000 - more pellet weight, in the larger pellets, is likely to yield more penetration. Recent penetration tests in ballistic gelatin have helped confirm that 00 has useful amounts of penetration left at 40 - 50 yards.

Patterns will of course vary from barrel to barrel. I prefer tight patterning barrels on the off chance I ever need to make a longer than normal shot under circumstances that do not allow for a 'select slug' drill to be performed. Admittedly this is unlikely, but the ability to shoot what's in the chamber under a wider variety of circumstances is what started me out looking to eliminate the shotgun 'B zone' many years ago.

The classic shotgun 'zone system' is well described here:

The Zone System - While the use of sights will enable a target to be hit, a method is needed to help determine the optimum engagement distances for the ammunition used. The zone system sets up bands of weapon performance versus ammunition selection. The first or "A" zone extends from the muzzle to about seven to 10 yards, where the pattern has typically expanded to between four and seven inches. Within this range the shot charge is effectively a single projectile and it is quite easy to miss a human sized target unless sights are used.

The "B" zone extends from the end of the "A" zone to that range where charge of buckshot has spread to about the width of the human torso (about twenty inches). This occurs at a range of between twenty to thirty-five yards for most weapons. Since the shot charge is spreading out the pattern must be centered to effectively turn off an assailant. While hits can be obtained without proper sights, it is just as fast and much more positive to do it with sights. At the course that I attended the maximum range for the "B" zone for a given ammunition was determined by the range at which the shotgun would consistently knock down a 10 inch diameter steel lollipop target with the buckshot used. (One student's shotgun would consistently drop the target at 35 yards and about 50% of the time at 40 yards! That's patterning!)

Past end of the "B" zone, at thirty-five yards or so depending on the individual weapon, even with modern buffered loads and hardened buckshot the shot charge usually spreads so much that the majority of pellets may not strike the target that is aimed at. This area is called the "C" zone and this is where the rifled slug comes into play. At the course that I attended one of the techniques taught is a "select slug" drill that teaches the rapid switching to a slug round with a shotgun loaded with buckshot when a C zone target appears. While the approximate distances of the zones can be memorized, many of the students used the width of the thick ghost ring system front sight blade as a reference for the B/C break point but once practiced a couple of times you get a feel for when it's time to switch and it becomes automatic.

Some folks may comment at this point, "Why not just use slugs for everything and forget about buckshot" and some folks actually do that. Unfortunately, there are a couple of flies in the ointment with this approach. First, the use of buckshot is mandated by many organizations with slugs reserved for "special" use. Second, slugs will shoot clean through most soft targets so they must be employed carefully for general use.

The biggest problem with both buckshot and slugs is that their performance is highly individual weapon dependent, which brings us to the third principle.

Ammunition Selection -- http://www.frfrogspad.com/shotgun.htm

Patterns with my preferred shotgun and load at 50 yards are more open that I'd prefer but still potentially effective, given circumstances where there aren't any no-shoots nearby or downrange. At 50 yards I start losing pellets off a typical IPSC silhouette, but most of the pellets in a given load will still be on the cardboard. It's the ones that miss the intended target that cause worry though...
 
I will answer from a hunting perspective:

For the thick cover deer and hog hunting that is the norm for the Gulf Coast area, my favorite round is Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot. This tight patterning load shoots to the POA with the bead on a flat ( o ) sight picture of my vent rib 870 at 50 yards. Each pellet weighs 3/4th ounce.
 
My 12ga has carry's a full chock and has had onlyshot size used in it from my early years hunting in swamps and is very deadly on deer with its preferred 2 3/4" 1buck load at longer ranges than most think practical from a shotgun. Inside a house its pattern is more a large hole. No pattern to it.
 
I think these tests are great:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

But everything seems to be penetrating a little more deeply than other similar tests I've seen.

The authors admit as much on one of the blocks.

So anyway I think their test may give shot a little more oooomph than you might see in other tests.

But in Brassfethcer's test #4 Buck did pretty good IMO, around 23 pellets penetrating over 12", around 13 pellets penetrating 14" or more and 6 pellets that penetrated 15" or more, I think a few exited the back of the block.

I'm happy with a 9mm that penetrates to 14" so I think to have 12 or 13 pellets .236" diameter penetrating to that depth has to be effective IMO.


http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 gauge number four buckshot.pdf

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508186
 
Federal Premium Personal Defense #4 buck (PD156-4B) ought to perform better than the Federal PowerShok #4 buckshot load tested by BrassFetcher.

Keep in mind that BrassFetcher's test used a 24" bbl.
 
I voted for #4 Buck because that is why I use in my urban residence, a condo. There I want to balance penetration with concern for my neighbors. For me, #4 is a good compromise, and I get nice patterns at the ranges in which I expect to use it in the HD 870. It does seem a bit harder to find than in the past, but that may be due to the fact that I now live in areas where shotguns for deer are not very popular whereas in the past I lived in an area where deer hunting was shotgun-only.

In my main rural home, I prefer more penetration and have less concerns about neighbors due to distances. There I use #2 or #00 Buck. It patterns very well in my 870P guns, and it is readily available.

So, my real answer is, "It depends...."
 
Buckshot isn't legal for hunting big game here. I have slugs for that.

Winchester 2&3/4" 1oz max. 1600fps Used to get these in 15 packs at a really good price. Makes a decent 'back up' big game rifle.

HD is a 2&3/4 00 Buckshot, usually Winchester.

I bought some 3 inch Federal buffered buckshot once.. the buffering material doesn't stay in the shells and gets everywhere. I'd say the chance of that jamming up an action plus the extra recoil wasn't worth it.
 
Depending on which shotgun is grabbed. 870 nitro-mag: 3 1/2" 00, I-12: 2 3/4" #2 steel, 600AT: 1 3/4" 4&1 buckshot, and the 1100 2 3/4" 00 . No loads are reduced recoil, well except for the aguilas.
 
Picked up some Brenneke KO and HD slugs today at the show. First Brenneke slugs I've seen in months. I like the HD slugs, they perform better almost all the way around than the Remington Foster slugs I used to use. So they're sitting on the side-saddle now, while the tube and chamber are still holding Federal 2-3/4" 00 Buck.
 
Hornady eight pellet 00 buck. This load keeps all eight pellets COM out to 35 yards from the 20 inch IC bore barrel of my M590, and will put them all on a ten inch paper plate at 25 yards. That is incredible performance.
 
Victim was hit twice with a load of #8 shot from a 12 guage pump. Both wounds appeared to be lethal in autopsy photos. Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.
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I didn't say birdshot isn't lethal, or can't be lethal. I said it wont reliably stop a threat. If birdshot was reliably lethal on large mammals we'd use it for deer hunting. Ballistic gel isn't perfect, but it's very good at approximating wounds in human flesh, and it's repeatable.

Also, lethality and stopping a threat a two different things that unfortunately have significant overlap.
 
Standard factory #0 or #1 Buckshot loads for general purpose security.

Light #4 Buck for my HD.
 
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