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12 gauge slug penetration? What?!

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Inebriated, Nov 11, 2012.

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  1. Jason_W

    Jason_W Member

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    I'd venture that there is more to a wound than depth of penetration. I have no way to test my theory, but I'd be willing to bet that it all boils down to the volume of vital tissue destroyed.
     
  2. 336A

    336A Member

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    There is a point where mass becomes important in the penetration equation as well. I tried to find some ballistic testing info on the 160gr 7mm bullet you referenced but came up short on that. However I did find a 150gr Nosler Accubond test fired from a .300 WSM. Granted a 150gr .30 cal bullet dosen't have the SD of a 7mm 160gr pill, but it is much higher than a slug or even a Brenneke.

    Here is the link to the .300 WSM data http://www.brassfetcher.com/300 Win...00 WSM Nosler AccuBond 150gr bare gelatin.pdf

    For comparison here is a link with Brenneke info. Scroll down to the bottom of pg 10 and you can read how much it penetrated, so much for SD:rolleyes:
    http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/file...t/user_upload/Dokumente/Classic_Magnum_LE.pdf


    Then there is this monster:what:
    http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/file...imum_Barrier_Penetration_Slug_Information.pdf

    Then there are these for those really special moments when you care to give the best:D http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

    While SD is important it's far from being the end all be all where penetration is concerned.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  3. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    What does a 400 yard shot have to do with anything? First, it's beyond the maximum effective range. Secondly, nobody would hunt at 400 yards with a 12 ga, and lastly 400 yards is not self-defense range for civilians, either.

    So it's completely irrelevant. That's like saying hand grenades are ineffective because people outside the blast radius survived...

    Yes, anectdotally, people CAN survive from certain death (shark attacks, falls from tall buildings, electric shock, drowning, lost at sea, lost in the wilderness, plane crashes). But the 12 ga. is a very reliable man stopper and deer stopper if YOU do your part.
     
  4. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Simple synopsis of my opinion, the slug under-performs in jello tests due to lack of sectional density vs the handgun.
     
  5. plumberroy

    plumberroy Member

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    Actually, for around here my serious slugs are are .625 hard cast round balls at 1275 fps . I fire them out of H&R rifled 20 ga . I have reach yonder guns and practice with them . But since I'm not going hungry if I come home empty handed , my prefered hunting style is up close and personal :D
    And if I really need the meat I know for a fact that a deer isn't safe from my 45/70 inside 250 yards I have shot it at 300 yard targets, I have Ideas for a big bear stopper but that is another thread
     
  6. Sheepdog1968

    Sheepdog1968 Member

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    I wouldn't want to be shot with any 12 gauge slugs, soft or not soft lead.
     
  7. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    Similar to Dixie tri ball or whatever it's called, two RBs 12 gauge bore was what I was looking at? Supposed to be designed for hog hunters and I was hunting a buckshot only WMA. EMed TP&W to ask if this stuff was considered buckshot, the answer was no. Oh well, sounded like some good stuff for the purpose, anyway. :D Slug would be better I'd think, but I don't know. They show a pattern sorta rifle like for the tri ball, but three hits at 50 yards about 2" apart IIRC. Impressive if true. :D

    http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html
     
  8. plumberroy

    plumberroy Member

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    Not really,it is a single ball
    ballistic pruducts 3" multi hull
    Bluedot , plastic gas seal 2- 1/2 hard fiber wads and a nitro wad 1/4" felt wad under the the 356 gr.ball roll crimped with my poor eyes and the factory iron sights I group 4 1/2" @ 100 yards 2 1/2" @ 50 and good enough to head shoot small game under 35 :D Poor mans express rifle
    I think I could shoot 2" groups with a scoped gun with this load .. Couple rounds will cut a 4x4 in half
    Roy
     
  9. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    I live in a state that has zones for shotgun slugs and rifle. I've shot dozens of deer. Rifles are nearly always more effective and cause more tissue damage and quicker kills than either foster or sabot slugs. I like sabots better but not by a lot. Other hunters that use both that I have discussed it with say the same thing. A bigger hole isn't all it's cracked up to be. Folks that brag up shotguns don't know any better.
     
  10. opto_isolator

    opto_isolator Member

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  11. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    I've killed several deer with shotgun slugs, both rifled and sabot. My preference is rifled, due to less than stellar performance by the Lightfields I used. Even with those, deer never went more than a few steps. Most are DRT, those that aren't are immobile and require a follow up to a "non-eating" area, usually the head.

    My gripe with the sabots wasn't accuracy or lack of a dead deer, it was SERIOUS overpenetration and not enough expansion to make a clean kill, even with the first round going right through the boiler room. Deer dropped like a sack of hammers, but lay there kicking until I finished it. All but one deer shot with "old fashioned" rifled slugs have died quickly with one shot to the vital zone. Those that haven't have been traced to a poor shot on my part.
     
  12. VAPOPO

    VAPOPO Member

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    All the deer I have shot with Remmy 12 gauge slugs have never taken thier next step. I have recoved one whole and the rest left orange size exit holes in the deer.
    My experience also.
     
  13. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    Slugs do make nice big holes and penetrate well enough for deer. They don't destroy the volume of tissue a centerfire rifle will do from the cavitation. A nice hole through the lungs is good. Both lungs turned to jelly is better. Slugs actually destroy less meat, much less is bloodshot. Millions of deer are killed either way so it is not a huge deal. Rifles give you way more range with better accuracy, less recoil and more effective bullets. typical slug guns are good out to 75 to 125 yards max and that may be a stretch. Highly specialised rigs can go to 200 in the right hands and conditions. The range varies more on rifles from 125 up to 400 yards for a typical high power outfit can also can be higher in the right hands. Your experience can be different but I have been hunting for 50 years and shot dozens of deer and have been in hunting parties where many deer are shot both with shotgun and rifles. If you have a lucky shot once or twice more power to you. I believe what I have seen, not what some unknown guy on the internet says. Yeah, I know, I am just another internet unknown too. A pic of me and my best deer are in a brochure for Hunters Specialties a couple years back and I have posted pics here. Enjoy your hunt and be safe whatever you shoot, it is all good.
     
  14. Zombiphobia

    Zombiphobia Member

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    Speaking of 12ga slugs, in hunting situations, I've only used one. Neck shot at about 15 yrds and it went through with instant death.

    Haven't used them again because I was aiming for the front shoulder.
     
  15. 336A

    336A Member

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    Maybe your gun just didn't like that particualr slug. Shotguns are no different than rifles in that they certainly show a preference for a particular brand of ammo, just like rifles do. I had no issues this morning with my newly ordered 20" vent rib barrel on my Mossberg 500 12ga. A foolish small spike horn stepped in front of me looking directly at me about 50 yards away. I lined up the beads directly on the center of his chest and squeezed, sending a Brenneke K.O. dwon range. The slug went exactly where I intended, upon impact the little buck did a back flip that was it.
     
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