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12GA Rifle From HELL--

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by hubel458, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    I found 3 long brass 8ga cases to go with
    the 3.3" plastic ones. They are an inch longer
    and made by RMC. The 8ga barrel I'm putting
    on a falling block will have the chamber long
    so I can use both lengths of cases.
    The plastic ones are from 8ga kiln cases with base
    swaged a little and has shotgun primers, The
    long brass has shotgun primers.
    I use Fed 239 shotgun primers.Ed

    8losh.jpg
     
  2. NoobCannon

    NoobCannon Member

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    Location:
    Wharton, Texas
    Is there any way I can purchase a single assembled round from you? That is just so awesome that I have to have one for a paperweight.
     
  3. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Which one do you want. The price varies.
    PM me and I get you set up with one.Ed
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    The long brass 8ga cases have same thick
    sides as plastic cases. And there are long
    plastic/paper cases out there, but they
    are scarce. Thick sides mean a good chamber
    fit, so as to minimize case expansion and make sizing
    easier. Here is picture 8ga and 10ga fullbore slugs with
    locked on basewads that I setup. Wads held on by
    screws and slugs hollowbase as well, so to work in
    smooth barrels with some accuracy. 8ga is 1100gr.
    10ga is 900 gr.Ed
    810base.jpg
     
  5. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Member

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    Semi related, did anyone see the 2 gauge rifle in one of the newer Guns & Ammo issues?
     
  6. madmike

    madmike Member

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    In a well-equipped suburban bunker
    Grunt: Dang, now I need clean shorts.
     
  7. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Member

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    It was made for black powder, of course. And weighs 23 pounds.
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
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    New super strong 12ga bolt gun just out, Savage 212, taking
    over for the 210. You know I did my first 12ga FH in a 210 and
    have posted that sometime I'd like to get a thicker walled
    reciever built to have more strength and safety.
    Well Savage helped us out.

    Its reciever is 1.5" diameter, where the 210 was 1.36" dia.
    I has a large .900" diameter bolt, where the 210 had regular
    110 bolt inside bolt carrier. It has a fitted bolt head like 210
    and other Savage 110-116 rifles. Only its bolt head has two lugs
    where the 210 had 3 lugs. Its two lugs about 90% strength as
    the 210s 3 lugs.Its about 12% stronger lugs than Enfield and
    Rugers. Also it appears the bolt raceways are not through the
    barrel thread area so about 50% stronger barrel connection.

    Price not too bad 500-550. I'll try to find one later to do some
    hairy cartridges in. It has a 3" 12ga chamber from factory and
    detachable magazine. Probably can have mag and port lengthened
    and feed ok, with 3.5" 12ga and the 700H 3.25". More info
    as I find out stuff.Picture from auction-e.Thanks to
    Bob in OR for info.Ed
    [​IMG]
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Some more info on the Savage 212. I looked at one,
    got more measurements. The port is 3.812" long.
    Can be made longer. Bolt travel is 4.625" and can be .50"
    longer. And with full diameter bolt can have extra
    lugs in back. The Mag box has room for extra length in
    front of it and behind it. It could work for 12ga FH
    and 700HE long case.

    A fellow on Gunsmithing forum found a way to make
    jacketed slugs using copper tubing caps, the solder ones,
    by putting them in a die and using a shaped punch to form
    a round nose copper jacket, that can be filled with lead.
    He made .700 cal ones, different dies/punchs could
    be made .729, 12ga size. I got a few here and going to see
    what is possible. I got bigger caps also to see about 4ga
    and 8ga ones. Here is picture of the CBC break action with
    the 20ga heavy barrel mono-blocked in, with action open.Ed
    cbco20.jpg
     
  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Would have posted back quicker but computer
    hookup down for afew days..
    Here is picture of 16GA FH I mentioned earlier doing in
    an Enfield. Got 630gr slug 2400, compared to
    the first 16GA FH in thin barrel break action at 1600.
    I use 630 gr full bore slugs and the 385gr SPW
    saboted with locked on bases.

    Opened port and changed bolt stop. Reamed
    front so case fit through action into barrel and added extra
    rear lugs. Same process that is used to do Enfield
    in my 700H 3.25.
    I got some of the work done on 8ga in my falling
    block design, like the 4ga I've done pictured earlier.
    Will get pictures posted later..Ed
    en16fh.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2011
  11. jiminhobesound

    jiminhobesound Member

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    Big 12

    You beat Red Jacket to it!
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
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    Experimenting for fellows trying to get speed with heavier sabot slugs than
    the lightweight saboted 4-500 gr kind of slugs, in 2 5/8" length brass
    cases for where length is limited..

    Using 770 gr saboted slugs with locked on base, by US-S.
    Thes are long saboted slugs due being brass and locked on base.
    Real hard to do with these due to lack of powder space for the RE17
    and IMR 4759-4227 that I like to use. With 770 gr and 60gr 4759 got 1450 fps.
    With 75gr Re17 about 1350 fps. Both of these all case will hold under sabot.

    For contrast using full bore 730 gr Dixie with just seals under it, much more
    powder room, with 95gr 4759 getting 1800 plus and 130 gr RE17 1700 fps.
    I went to faster powder, my slowest shotgun powder, Alliant steel, to try to get
    speed like full bore slugs get.

    These listed are max loads before brass cases expanded to much and started
    sticking, due to sharp expansion step, where the base goes to the side with a
    real small inside radius on this particular RMC brass case.
    47gr Steel,and 770 gr slug 1400 fps.

    So I tried the 570 gr US-S with 53gr Steel,and got 1700 fps. Same slug with
    65gr 4759 got 1650. You can put in more Steel but cases stick.
    And cases expanded that way are hard to resize.

    The first 3" brass I got years ago, same problem with
    a sharp step expanding above the base. So when I had 3.5" brass made
    I had them do a long inside radius from base to the sides. These with extra
    room for powder and cushion are much less problem. I think where you have
    to use shorter cases, you can use plastic, as a 3" plastic is 2 5/8"
    when crimped and will do the same and only be 20 cents or so new.Ed
     
  13. Six

    Six Member

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    Location:
    Midlands, SC
    Thanks for keeping the thread alive, really interesting read.

    Any chance we could get some side by side pictures of the various guns and calibers?

    I'd love to see the 4ga and its ammo next to say a regular rifle like a Remington 700 in a common caliber.
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    I will do some comparison pictures with the
    big stuff next to 30-06s.Ed
     
  15. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Here is picture of a big bolt action a fellow on Homegunsmith
    built to put big cases in, for his own use. It is of better looks,
    quality than most other single shot actions, of that style being
    built by others for sale.
    Also the fellow made a recess type of die and shaped punch
    to make large caliber, copper bullet jackets, from plumbing
    copper caps, and then put melted lead into them from
    the back. He uses a big hammer, works great.
    I got a few different sizes of caps and they are
    perfect for bullet jackets. Right from hardware or plumber
    supply places. ED
    jaction.jpg
    jbullet.jpg
     
  16. gathert

    gathert Member

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    Location:
    Clemson, SC, Good old USA
    Thats some good looking machine work there.
     
  17. RugerMcMarlin

    RugerMcMarlin Member

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    ooh ... New Pig Gun!:evil:


    oooh Six said side by side, Double Rifle....
     
  18. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
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    Answering questions bullet jackets from copper tubing
    caps. This process makes jacketed slug with covered
    nose. With heavy soft jacket as opposed to a
    solid turned slug from solid rod or soft lead slug.

    1/2" caps can make .700 and 12ga size jackets.
    5/8" caps can do 8ga and maybe 10ga jkts.
    And 3/4" caps can make 4ga. These cups are
    malleable enough to shape into jackets,
    without a 20 ton stamping press.

    Interesting info about our posting of this subject on
    about 5 dozen forums. One big general forum thread,
    that we posted some info, has about 5 million views.It is
    Mil Photo Forum a big world wide forum..
    The top forum of the bunch, with whole thread on it
    about 120,000 views(which is this one), 2nd about
    110,000 views, 3rd one
    about 104,000 views, 4th one about
    102,00 views. Ed
     
  19. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    MD.
    Thanks for posting all this, Ed. While I have ABSOLUTELY no desire to touch off one of your creations, I find the continuing saga intriguing.....
     
  20. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    You know of the 4 bore we did on falling block,
    with its 1 inch bore.Using turned cases and cases
    made from 20mm brass. Our cases have a rim and
    straight sides. A smith in the EU made a 1 inch bore
    gun on a bolt action, using 20mm brass expanded
    to take 1 inch bullets. His case has a shoulder to
    head space on. It is called the Inch Gun by some.
    It is a really nice looking gun, with great
    craftsmanship.Ed
    inchgun.jpg
     
  21. Dave McCracken

    Dave McCracken Moderator In Memoriam

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    Wow!!

    I wonder what scope he'll try........
     
  22. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Ones with a longer than normal eye relief I'm sure, as
    some of our big bore guys have found is needed
    in our experimenting, even with hairy 20 and 12 gauges,
    as well as the bigger ones.Ed
     
  23. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Location:
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    Here is picture of the 8ga falling block we are working
    on, partly done. It is built like the 4bore one in a
    one piece stock. IT is built .150" narrower than 4bore.
    We used the heavy 8ga barrel that I first
    put in the Enfield bolt gun for a 8ga testing. The breech
    block, linkage, lever, pivot is done, as you can see
    in picture with lever open and breech down.
    I have got to chamber, put in firing pin, do
    hammer and trigger. 8ga gun in 1st picture.

    Hammer and trigger setup is now mounted and moves
    on the back of the breech block on an extension.
    I also made this change first on 4bore, 2nd pic.
    It uses NEF hammer and spring and Stevens trigger.
    Breech block set up same as 4bore just narrower.
    Later hope to do a 2 bore and same setup only
    breech and action a little wider.Ed

    8gafb.jpg

    4trham.jpg
     
  24. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Here picture of the 8ga from back. This action will also
    do 12ga FH, 10ga, 700HE, 600NE,50BMG,etc. The breech
    block in this and the 4bore are 1 inch thick front to back,
    with the width different. The bottom of block is same on all
    and uses same linkage and lever; same hammer and trigger.
    The 4bore one will do 20mm, as that is what I make
    the 4bore brass from. When I do 2bore, breech block will use
    same parts, but just be wider on the top of the block.
    The recoil pads are over 2" thick. I made the stock
    from a 2.5" thick blank......mostly by hand.

    This action will hold much more pressure that the heavy
    built plastic 8ga cases can take , and they are good
    to over 20,000 psi. Like a 1000gr at 2500.Ed
    8gafbb.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2011
  25. hubel458

    hubel458 Member

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    Brinton,Mich.
    Guys wanted more particulars of Hubel FB..
    Here is picture, empty falling block receiver
    from the top...2nd a side view of the breech
    block with back extensions, with hammer and
    trigger. Hammer has safety cocking notch.
    The lever, not shown, connects to linkage up
    inside the two bottom extensions.Ed
    emptyact.jpg
    brchside.jpg
     
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