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12ga shotgun vs. 2 boats of Pirates

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Bartholomew Roberts, Mar 18, 2005.

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  1. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    I saw this account of a recent piracy incident off the coast of Yemen on another forum and thought it provided a tremendous example of cool thinking and good tactics under stress.

    Two sailboats were motoring off the coast of Yemen when they were attacked by pirates in two motorboats. The pirates had automatic weapons and possibly even crew-served weapons and outnumbered the two sailors by at least 4-1 odds. Despite the fact that there was only a single shotgun between both sailboats, the two managed to sink one pirate boat, disable the second and kill at least 2-3 pirates during the encounter. Just goes to show that the most important defensive tool you own is between your ears...

    Source
     
  2. Soap

    Soap Member

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    Tactics :cool:
     
  3. Horsesense

    Horsesense Member

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    Rodney appears to be pretty salty. I wonder why he didn’t have a rifle? I can see that it would have been very heard to hit two guys at 100 feet, while both shooter and target were on rocking and moving boats, with a rifle. It just seems that engaging them with a MBR in 30-06 or 308 at 5 or 600 yards would be the way to go.

    On second thought, that may have just encouraged the BG to stand off and use their own long range options, draw them in close and overwhelm them with a sudden and unexpected violent response… yah the old boy did good.

    Note to self; get your buddy an 870


    Edited to add: the US navy needs to disguise the con tower (?) on a submarine to look like a sail boat and go hunting.
     
  4. williegee

    williegee Member

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    I love stories with a happy ending! ;) It's always nice to see a story where the good guys come out on top.
     
  5. Langenator

    Langenator Member

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    Don't use a disguised sub...just use a decent sized pleasure boat (preferably sail, with a nice big diesel engine) manned by some SEALs...with their attendant heavy weapons.

    Although most of the SEAL team are probably out hunting terrorists, not pirates, at the moment.
     
  6. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    "Use enough boat."
     
  7. CAS700850

    CAS700850 Member

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    My grandfather used to do a good bit of pleasure boating down in Florida, and would join other boaters in his marina for long trips down the west coast from Sarasota over to the Keys or the Bahamas. Now, bear in mind my grandfather, a retired dentist, carried a High Standard derringer in his pocket every day of his life ("because the 2nd Amendment says I can!"), kept a 1911 under the seat of his Cadillac, and still abuses me for carrying a "plastic gun" in a "caliber only good for target practice." Anyways, on his first trip, he took his handgun(s), and the group was harassed by some idiots asking to "rent" their boats, miles from no where in the middle of the Gulf. So, upon return, he bought an M-1 carbine, a Mossberg 12 gauge, and a Smith 686. He rigged a mount for the rifle next to the helm, and bought nylon carry gear for the Smith, so he could wear if even if he was on deck in the rain.

    Be prepared is kind of a family tradition...
     
  8. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    Yarrghhhhh!!!

    Man the mossberg!! steady as she goes!! Ramming speed Mr. salty!!!
     
  9. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    Good on these skippers for working together and thwarting the attack, glad to hear that their damage was limited to jangled nerves and dinged property!

    Lots of oceangoing pleasure craft carry shotguns, they can sometimes cause less hassle w/the local authorities than other firearms, are cheap to buy, break down for easier hiding, and can be quite effective at repelling boarders. Not for naught do Remington, Mossberg and Winchester produce "marine" versions of their best selling pumpguns.

    lpl/nc
     
  10. JamisJockey

    JamisJockey member

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    Well, you're assuming he's
    A) familiar with MBR style weapons
    B) has enough time to practice
    C) knows he's being approached by pirates at that kind of range.


    I think the choice of a shottie was perfect. I'd have loaded the first couple as slugs, though, for better range and penetration. However, I'd say he did pretty damn good.
    Also, a shotgun can fire flares, which is pretty handy onboard a private sailing vessel.
     
  11. Soap

    Soap Member

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    I'd agree that 500-600 yards would be tough on a moving target shooting from a moving seacraft. I think his choice of armament was quite good. If I were able to get my hands on an FA AK variant I would rather have that personally.
     
  12. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    i read a story very similar to this about a year ago in Robb Report, which is a magazine read primarily by wealthy folks with nice yachts, cars, homes, etc.

    similar story except it was one yachtsman and two crewman in the Indian Ocean off the Southern Coast of India near the Maldive Islands.

    they were sailing when they noticed two ships following them from a distance on their sonar/radar (which one is it?) as they slowed down, the ships would slow down. as they sped up, the ships would speed up. when they changed direction, the ships would change direction too.

    they knew something was up, especially in this area where piracy is alive and well.

    good thing they had three different types of weapons on board: long range rifles, scatterguns (shotguns) for short range, and pistols in the event they were boarded.

    they also had pre-positioned bright lighting on the port and starboard sides of the yacht for (1) night docking and (2) defensive night blinding during darkness. evidently it is harder to board at the bow or stern parts of the ship? sorry im not a boat expert, but i think the motors are a bad place to board and the bow is usually too high to board?

    anyway they broadcast for assistance and a U.S. Navy vessel reported they could not intervene since it was international waters, they could only respond to rescue them (but not fire upon the hostiles unless fired upon).

    The U.S. Navy vessels were too far away to get to for cover so they ended up taking the two ships on. They used the lighting to their advantage so they could blind the approaching ships.

    they used the high powered rifles to hit them from afar and were successful...luckily.

    the yachtsman reported if they are threatened they go with the lighting if it is at night and shoot with the high powered rifles first to sink the hostile watercraft, disable the engine, or incapacitate the hostiles. if this does not work at a long range, they switch to shotguns to blast the boats before they can board.

    if they are boarded then they also use pistols. pretty good combination if you ask me.

    i guess when im rich and i buy a yacht ill make sure i go sailing with my M249SAW. that ought to take out a boat pretty quick. nothing like belt fed to disable something!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2005
  13. ETCss Phil McCrackin

    ETCss Phil McCrackin Member

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    What was it that Sherrif Brody said in Jaws? "I think we need a bigger boat."? Well, see if this fits the bill! :what:

    Go Navy!
     
  14. musher

    musher Member

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    FWIW, Gandalf is a steel hulled boat. Made me think about the choice of hull materials on a circumnavigation. Nice to have the ability to ram wood and plastic boats w/o sinking yourself!
     
  15. trickyasafox

    trickyasafox Member

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    i wonder how many rounds he fired. . . thats always my biggest concern. if it hits the fan will i have enough ammo on me. ..
     
  16. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

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    Hmmm... maybee its time to armor up the old fishing boat....

    Great story. i love to hear the ones where the ad guys get whats coming to them.

    if my boat were atualy big enough to sail out on open water, id but him a new shotty. Maybee a Saiga 12 or a Mossy with a heat sield and riot tube/drum upgrade.

    i was under the asumption that federal law prohibited mounting weapons ona vehicle? ut i suppose that wouldnt matter in international waters...
     
  17. Mannlicher

    Mannlicher Member

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    I am glad it worked out for the 'good guys', but I still think its a stupid place to be pleasure boating. Almost always, these things work out in the bad guys favor. Down here in Miami, its a common thing, for folks out 'yachting' down to the Islands to just dissappear for ever.
     
  18. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    Any confirmation this really happened? Only thing found with a quick web search was repeats of the same story.
     
  19. musher

    musher Member

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    Yes, it happened.

    Rodney Nowlin is my coworker's brother. My coworker's daughter was on board Mahdi when they were attacked.
     
  20. jeff-10

    jeff-10 Member

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  21. Igloodude

    Igloodude Member

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    Glad these folks made it through okay, and yeah, tactics and mindset are where it's at.

    In my experience, ex-navy people who become small-boat offshore sailors tend to be a little more defensive-minded than "yachties" (although I may be biased because I'm ex-navy and someday am going to get my own boat).

    I have no intention of going to sea without a couple shotguns, a good long-range hunting rifle, and several 1911s at least three of which will be hidden/stashed around the boat. If I can get a few grenades so much the better. Now if I was going to be sailing in the lower Caribbean, Red Sea, or anywhere in the southwest Pacific I'd be arming for real.

    I carry a concealed firearm because it might be 15 minutes before the cops arrive. If it is likely to be at least 15 hours, I'm going to be my own little floating arsenal.

    By the way, it is radar above the surface of the water, sonar below the surface.
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    I'm with Mannlicher. Who the devil goes out adventuring off the coast of Yemen? :what:

    Shotgun is a good choice for a boat. However, I like to have something heavy around, like a BAR in .338 or a .416 bolt gun and a bunch of buddies around with rifles firing AP ammo. :)
     
  23. TheLastBoyScout

    TheLastBoyScout Member

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    Ballistics question...

    assuming you and your pursuers were moving at an equal speed in a stern chase (i.e. rate of closure = 0), would you have to lead the target at all?

    Would you correct for wind as a result of motion the same way you correct for wind as weather?
     
  24. Clean97GTI

    Clean97GTI Member

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    as old and outdated as they seem, the trusty 12ga shotgun always seems to prove its worth.

    My choice for a boat would be a Mosin-Nagant, a pump action 12ga and a handgun with a big magazine.

    I can lay down long range firepower with easily obtainable AP rounds. The shotgun gives me devastating power up close and the pistol allows me to defend should the above weapons allow a few badguys past. The Mosin Nagant would also be an M44 so as to have a bayonet at hand.

    I think a good knife on the belt would be helpful too.
     
  25. beerslurpy

    beerslurpy member

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    Id just mount a ma deuce or a twin-linked mg42 (anti-air) with every 10th round a tracer. If someone tries to rob you, you just send a few thousand beefy AP rounds their direction and turn their little boats into collanders.
     
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