13.7" vs 12.5" vs 11.5"

[JayZee]

I built a 12.5" AR15 in 5.56 NATO as my "main squeeze". It's a legally registered SBR and I love it.

Thinking of going to a 13.7" barrel with a soldered/P&W on muzzle device.. but..why?

I have an 11.5" XM177 "clone" upper that I really like as well.

I don't see 12.5" vs 11.5" being significantly different enough when looking at; range, velocity and compact size.
Yes the 12.5" is "better" than a 11.5" especially considering the above but wouldn't a 13.7" be even more so for barely more length?

Also, the P&W 13.7" appeals to me because it stays as SHORT as legally possible.
Especially noticable when you do mount a suppressor because it mounts further back onto the muzzle device.
I also hear the weight is balanced further back and not so much out front when compared to a 16" especially with a can.

I am definitely going to get a can when I start making more money at my new job.
(Suggestions are welcome, also consider a muzzle device that would mount)
It is likely I am to be moving for this new job, but don't know how long I'll be there..so not sure my SBR is worth filing the paperwork for considering I could move again and have to refile the paperwork.

I could sell my 12.5" barrel, replace it with a P&W 13.7" and slap that on my 20" lower and call it good? I can leave the SBR lower in the state where I currently have it, use it for my 11.5" and take my P&W 13.7" with me while I am out of state/settling into my new job with no headache.

I could also just drag my 20" around and "deal with it" until I get settled into a final new home and just transfer my 12.5" into the new state.

However I like the idea of having the shortest "not an SBR" rifle possible I can take between the states and still run a can on it when I commit to having one. It would be nice if I ever do competitive shooting between the states in New England.

I have a few "pistol" configuration lowers, with a brace but would rather avoid any "grey area" with the law till it's settled.

Anyone with a 13.7"-9" build can chime in with their experience.
I couldn't find much comparing an 11.5" to a 13.7" build.



Oh and mods can move this to NFA if it should be there.

 

[gotboostvr]

Alot of my friend group went to 13.7" barrels and they are all absolutely smitten with them.

I see the appeal of "short-but-not-an-SBR" carbines. I think the real smart play would be a ~15.x" barrel with a P&W'd standard length muzzle device personally to maximize barrel length, but anything in the 13.7-14.5" range should work pretty well too.

I'm debating the 15.x" and a standard A2 birdcage with a B&T Rotex-X 556 suppressor. They're fairly inexpensive as far as cans go and QD on standard A2 flash hiders which will save you a TON on mounts if you want to use it on multiple hosts, in addition to being a pretty sturdy and quiet can.

 

[powermad]

I went with a 14.7" P&W from PSA.
The way I see it, if it's going to be 16" with a P&W barrel you may as well get the longest barrel you can.

If I was going to run a can I'd get a 13.7" SOLGW barrel and use the nox flashider for a can.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

I already have an 11.5 SBR. When I wanted another rifle to take across the limited state lines that I could cross with legally where I live, I decided on a 13.9 BA Hanson using an FCD 6315KM-L. I chose initially to do a 14.5 P&W to 16 then switched that idea to a pistol because after coming into knowledge that there was hardly a velocity difference between it and 14.5, what was the point anymore? Exactly.

But since the ATF and Biden are going to ATF and Biden, I scrapped the pistol idea and decided that I'd be better served pinning a 13.9 to a Keymo mount (can has already been paperwork done and sent in so now we wait). I get to have exactly what I wanted and none of the hassles really.



^^ already been dropped off to have P&W. I can't wait to pick that upper back up and sight in.

 

[valnar]

5.56 is one of those rounds that likes more barrel length to maximize potential, but that's not always a goal of every shooter. If you don't need the maneuverability of an SBR, then a longer barrel gains you other advantages.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

5.56 is one of those rounds that likes more barrel length to maximize potential, but that's not always a goal of every shooter. If you don't need the maneuverability of an SBR, then a longer barrel gains you other advantages.

case use>a better selected projectile than FMJ>barrel length

 

[halfmoonclip]

Had a local shop whack my pencil barrel Colt to 16+" with the flash hider permanently pinned. Like the setup, and can't see going shorter with a 5.56"
OTOH, have a 10.5" AR9, and an 8.5" Scorpion...pistol calibers are where short, handy carbines shine. Both of those are Tax Stamp guns, since we're back in the poo over 'braces'.
Moon

 

[gotboostvr]

Had a local shop whack my pencil barrel Colt to 16+" with the flash hider permanently pinned. Like the setup, and can't see going shorter with a 5.56"
OTOH, have a 10.5" AR9, and an 8.5" Scorpion...pistol calibers are where short, handy carbines shine. Both of those are Tax Stamp guns, since we're back in the poo over 'braces'.
Moon

<10" barrels with PCCs make alot of sense. I'm thinking hard about SBR'ing my 9mm Colt mag fed AR.

But for 5.56, I'll take a much barrel as I can get.

 

[25-20 WCF]

How about some actual data to help the OP decide?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html


.

 

[The_Quartermaster]

How about some actual data to help the OP decide?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html


.

That "data" is only useful if just those cartridge's are being used.

 

[mavracer]

I like the idea of pinned/welded muzzle devices to bring length to 16", I've done a couple myself. Just be careful not all muzzle devices are long enough to make a 13.7" long enough.

 

[mcb]

Never mind...

 

[The_Quartermaster]

I like the idea of pinned/welded muzzle devices to bring length to 16", I've done a couple myself. Just be careful not all muzzle devices are long enough to make a 13.7" long enough.

The information is out there if the person doing the searching is savvy enough.

https://www.bexararms.net/blog/muzzle-devices-for-137-barrels-that-reach-16-pin-and-weld-length/

 

[JayZee]

Thank you all so fat for your replies!!
Responding down the line, I guess I really need to look into which muzzle devices will work with which cans of of the cans they work with how well do they work.

I definitely plan to add a can at some point so I will definitely be going 13.7".
The idea of a 14.5-7 or a 15.1 would still be 16" however the mounting position/where the can threads is further forward thus making the package overall length longer. The 13.7" allows the threads on the muzzle device that attach to the can to be as far back as possible. Reducing length and weight out front.

The ballistics by the inch chart is "okay" and "something" but it doesn't account for the measurements in-between the 2" they cut nor that many ammo types.

@The_Quartermaster your build looks like it's gunna be bonkers.
I appreciate that link in your post after for muzzle devices.


The difference between the 16" and 14.5" wasn't enough like you said and then the longer it gets the further the can mounts so if a 14.5" and a 13.7" are already close, I can't be losing much and only be gaining a shorter package once suppressed.

 

[FL-NC]

I like 11.5" as a short barrel. I think it is the right length to be used without a can with the standoff between the muzzle and the face, but still short enough that with a can, it isn't excessively long. Daniel Defense even made an extended rail for use with a standard front sight base that would work with the 11.5". The 10" MK18 and older Crane uppers we were issued in the mil would have been much better IMO with the 11.5" barrel.

 

[mavracer]

I definitely plan to add a can at some point so I will definitely be going 13.7".
The idea of a 14.5-7 or a 15.1 would still be 16" however the mounting position/where the can threads is further forward thus making the package overall length longer. The 13.7" allows the threads on the muzzle device that attach to the can to be as far back as possible. Reducing length and weight out front.

Maybe, maybe not. While I'm not familiar with everybody's QD systems I know most of the ones that have longer muzzle devices like Key-Mo and Sico ASR the locking mechanism hangs out the back of the can.
With Griffin's taperlock the rear end of the can is actually behind the muzzle this is a 12" handguard and a 12.5" barrel.

 

[herrwalther]

10.5" pistol build is a nice little spot for me. Blast is a lot but that was expected. A flash can helps a lot when shooting indoors. It directs the blast and flash forward of the shooter, instead of to the sides like a brake does. Eventually I want to get a suppressor for it but doesn't make it too much longer.

I am waiting to see what the executive branch does with the SBR/AR pistol confusion before I plan to build another AR.

 

[kje54]

I built a 12.5" AR15 in 5.56 NATO as my "main squeeze". It's a legally registered SBR and I love it.

Thinking of going to a 13.7" barrel with a soldered/P&W on muzzle device.. but..why?

I have an 11.5" XM177 "clone" upper that I really like as well.

I don't see 12.5" vs 11.5" being significantly different enough when looking at; range, velocity and compact size.
Yes the 12.5" is "better" than a 11.5" especially considering the above but wouldn't a 13.7" be even more so for barely more length?

Also, the P&W 13.7" appeals to me because it stays as SHORT as legally possible.
Especially noticable when you do mount a suppressor because it mounts further back onto the muzzle device.
I also hear the weight is balanced further back and not so much out front when compared to a 16" especially with a can.

I am definitely going to get a can when I start making more money at my new job.
(Suggestions are welcome, also consider a muzzle device that would mount)
It is likely I am to be moving for this new job, but don't know how long I'll be there..so not sure my SBR is worth filing the paperwork for considering I could move again and have to refile the paperwork.

I could sell my 12.5" barrel, replace it with a P&W 13.7" and slap that on my 20" lower and call it good? I can leave the SBR lower in the state where I currently have it, use it for my 11.5" and take my P&W 13.7" with me while I am out of state/settling into my new job with no headache.

I could also just drag my 20" around and "deal with it" until I get settled into a final new home and just transfer my 12.5" into the new state.

However I like the idea of having the shortest "not an SBR" rifle possible I can take between the states and still run a can on it when I commit to having one. It would be nice if I ever do competitive shooting between the states in New England.

I have a few "pistol" configuration lowers, with a brace but would rather avoid any "grey area" with the law till it's settled.

Anyone with a 13.7"-9" build can chime in with their experience.
I couldn't find much comparing an 11.5" to a 13.7" build.



Oh and mods can move this to NFA if it should be there.

Do what I did and just get radical..........

 

[Varminterror]

I quit messing with P&W tape measure games a long time ago. If a customer insisted, despite my effort to talk sense into them, I’d still do it, but it’s not worth chasing to me.

By the time you monkey around with whatever brake makes length and the specific suppressors which would be compatible with it, you’ve painted yourself into a corner, and you’re still carrying a ~20” equivalent package, or longer. Stick a 10.5” barrel on an SBR, add a direct thread 6” can and you end up 4” shorter than the game you’re playing, and without the can, still 3-3.5” shorter - AND - you get more latitude in which can you choose.

P&W has always felt dumb to me. Ranks right up there with fake suppressors and straight pull or bolt action AR’s. It’s trying so hard to look a certain way that it loses sight of performance - and then it still doesn’t actually look right…

I’ve had shorties from 7” to 14.5”, all of my current pistol/SBR uppers are 10.5”. It hits the right mark for me for handling and velocity, across a spectrum of cartridges.

 

[kje54]

I quit messing with P&W tape measure games a long time ago. If a customer insisted, despite my effort to talk sense into them, I’d still do it, but it’s not worth chasing to me.

By the time you monkey around with whatever brake makes length and the specific suppressors which would be compatible with it, you’ve painted yourself into a corner, and you’re still carrying a ~20” equivalent package, or longer. Stick a 10.5” barrel on an SBR, add a direct thread 6” can and you end up 4” shorter than the game you’re playing, and without the can, still 3-3.5” shorter - AND - you get more latitude in which can you choose.

P&W has always felt dumb to me. Ranks right up there with fake suppressors and straight pull or bolt action AR’s. It’s trying so hard to look a certain way that it loses sight of performance - and then it still doesn’t actually look right…

I’ve had shorties from 7” to 14.5”, all of my current pistol/SBR uppers are 10.5”. It hits the right mark for me for handling and velocity, across a spectrum of cartridges.

People have their individual likes and dislikes and in many cases I don't listen to people trying to talk "their sense" into me............

 

[FL-NC]

Me on left, with nonstandard 11.5" barreled upper on M4 somewhere, 2006.

 

[Varminterror]

Anyone with a 13.7"-9" build can chime in with their experience.

You asked, so I did.

I’ve done P&W’s to make non-SBR shorties, I’ve done SBR’s 7-14.5”. P&W doesn’t really cut it, for me.

If you just wanted someone to butter your butt because you have what you want figured out, then say that. But you asked for experiences, I shared mine. If I’m building to carry a given length, I’d rather get something out of it, rather than pretending I’m skirting some law and still ending up with the same weight, length, and handling - but giving up speed - to be some pretend SBR… it’s the kid who puts straight pipes on his V6 in high school… if you wanna go short, just go short. Pay your stamp, send your 5320.20’s, and live happy.

 

[powermad]

Myself, I'm not in the market for anything shorter than 14.7", which is M4 length.
With an A2 FH it's just over 16", I'm not paying $200 for that or using a stupid brace.
I'm good with a P&W for mine, no reason to remove it so I don't sweat it.
If for whatever reason I did need it off, it would take me about 5 minutes to get the pin out.

I started with a 16" PSA govt profile barrel then swapped that out for a Faxon 16" gunner profile and that made a noticeable difference to me in the way it handled and balanced.
The FN 14.7" lightweight profile felt like the winning ticket to me so I sold off the 16" and probably won't buy another.
To me, if going 16", may as well go 18"
FN 14.7" on the left, Faxon 16" on the right. 13.5" handguards on both.


I would have to have a suppressor first before I did an SBR in the 12.5" range to begin with.
After shooting my buddies with the can on and off of it I came to the conclusion that the can comes first because I probably wouldn't shoot it much without one.

 

[kje54]

Myself, I'm not in the market for anything shorter than 14.7", which is M4 length.
With an A2 FH it's just over 16", I'm not paying $200 for that or using a stupid brace.
I'm good with a P&W for mine, no reason to remove it so I don't sweat it.
If for whatever reason I did need it off, it would take me about 5 minutes to get the pin out.

I started with a 16" PSA govt profile barrel then swapped that out for a Faxon 16" gunner profile and that made a noticeable difference to me in the way it handled and balanced.
The FN 14.7" lightweight profile felt like the winning ticket to me so I sold off the 16" and probably won't buy another.
To me, if going 16", may as well go 18"
FN 14.7" on the left, Faxon 16" on the right. 13.5" handguards on both.
View attachment 1112663

I would have to have a suppressor first before I did an SBR in the 12.5" range to begin with.
After shooting my buddies with the can on and off of it I came to the conclusion that the can comes first because I probably wouldn't shoot it much without one.

"After shooting my buddies"

Arms and legs or did you go for the torso?

 

[powermad]

Can't afford arms and legs, gotta make do with torso.