14" shotgun barrel no stamp?

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Much thanks Sam. Now I just have to check state law on the subject. But a 16" 20 ga would make a nice stocking stuffer for the father-in-law.

It does seem a bit silly to put a long pistol grip on a shotgun so one can get a shorter bbl. Wouldn't it make sense to have the longest bbl & the shortest pistol grip?
 
backbencher said:
Wouldn't it make sense to have the longest bbl & the shortest pistol grip?
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Not really.

For a shotgun, barrel length is pretty much inconsequential for ballistic effect provided its longer than 12" or so.

Shotgun powders burn fast and you get most of your velocity in the first few inches. Longer barrels are only really useful on shotguns for handling purposes.
 
So... he said slyly. Who besides Mossberg sells long arms that can handle shotgun shells, but don't come w/ a buttstock?

T/C is not the answer we're looking for here. A 26" T/C is gonna have a 22"+ bbl hanging off that pistol grip.

Farmers Fight!

backbencher
 
What about a stripped AR lower : EG

Edited to add - have emailed Remington, as the only factory PG I could find was a 10" breacher on their LE site, which defeats the purpose of this discussion.
 
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What about it? You can build a pistol on a stripped lower any day you care to so long as your local laws don't prohibit it. Most will require a buffer tube of some sort, but the dedicated .22LR guns and some odd ones like the OA-93 don't need it. Cut the barrel as short as (1) you like, and (2) it will function.
 
Can anyone say if this is legal to do in Michigan? If so i'll be running over to see my FFL ASAP to order a PGO mossy. This seems like a nice, cheap backdoor way to a fun NFA-like toy. It'll save me from blowing the $700 on a Serbu Super Shorty.
 
mgregg85 said:
Can anyone say if this is legal to do in Michigan?
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Looks like it would be.
“Shotgun” means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the
shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun
shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single function
of the trigger
Click to expand...

So a PGO is NOT a shotgun per the law.


(i) “Short-barreled shotgun” means a shotgun having 1 or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or a
weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified
has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
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Neat.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf
 
Here is a little selection from Michigan Firearms Law regarding shotguns...
MCL 750.222; MSA 28.419, in pertinent part, provides:
‘(d) ‘Shotgun’ means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder
and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire
through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single function of the trigger.
‘(e) ‘Short-barreled shotgun’ means a shotgun having 1 or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or a weapon
made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if the weapon as modified has an overall
length of less than 26 inches
Click to expand...

So it would seem from that that Michigan defines a shotgun as weapon designed to be fired from the shoulder.

So I think this would be legal then?
 
Sorry about that, I didn't refresh the page and you beat me to it. Thank you for the fast reply.

Well then, barring any dissenting opinions, let the games begin!:)
 
This is getting to be more trouble than its worth already, I cannot find a suitable pistol grip mossy 500 that has a short enough magazine tube to make this worth while. All the pistol grip shotguns they sell now have a long magazine tube that would only allow me to cut an inch or two off the barrel at most.
 
mgregg85 said:
This is getting to be more trouble than its worth already, I cannot find a suitable pistol grip mossy 500 that has a short enough magazine tube to make this worth while. All the pistol grip shotguns they sell now have a long magazine tube that would only allow me to cut an inch or two off the barrel at most.
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Why not see about finding a used one? The older models have shorter mag tubes on some guns, and you won't have too much trouble finding someone willing to sell their pgo shotgun.
 
3 thoughts:
Why make the receiver longer just to have a shorter bbl? What's the point?

Used PG should be carefully researched before purchase to verify they shipped from the factory w/ the pistol grip installed, & that there's no evidence of a shoulder stock being installed in the entire life of the weapon. Otherwise, you've just made a SBS w/o paying the $200 tax or doing the paperwork 1st. And there's no THR prisoners visitation committee yet.

A couple of inches is ALL one can chop off a Mossberg 500 PG w/out going to a lengthened PG. The 20 ga M500 shows as 28" on their site - you can only chop the bbl to 16.5" & stay @ the 26" limit w/out the tax stamp.

FF! bb
 
Hmmmmm, that means my 20 ga. Ithaca 37 with PG in the serial # would be legal if I put the Rubber pistol grip it came with back on and cut the 25" barrel it now has on it down to keep the OAL to 26"+ ?? Looks like 14.25" barrel would get me 26.25".:evil:
 
Gordon, IF your PG marked Ithaca has NEVER had a buttstock installed. It sounds like it has - I'm still not volunteering for THR's prisoner visitation committee. Why don't you go buy a NIB Mossy 500 PG, that you don't already have a used buttstock already lying around that your friends know you used to have on your new sub-18" PG? They might not drop the dime on you - but I would.
 
The short 5 round magazine tubes are about $30 or so.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/869...500-a-12-gauge


Food for thought:

The ATF has told us that buffer tubes are NOT stocks, allowing AR pistols to be kosher.

Why not mount a M4 buffer tube on your not-a-shotgun shotgun to get really short?
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Alright that solves the mag tube problem, what about the barrel? Do you know where I could find a barrel that has the appropriate mag tube ring thing for that 14" mag tube?

I would have the same question about that buffer tube idea, where can I find an appropriately short barrel?
 
Gordon, IF your PG marked Ithaca has NEVER had a buttstock installed. It sounds like it has...
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Actually, the ATF changed their stance earlier this year so that guns that came as a handgun/other can be converted back and forth as you wish.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606813

Note, this generally mentions pistols & rifles, but I think the foundation of the decision translates to shotgun -vs.- "other" as well.
 
Not to derail this thread but... is anyone aware of any AK style .410 bore PGO guns at reasonable prices? I think one with a 15-16" barrel would make an excellent HD firearm.
 
Sam1911 said:
Actually, the ATF changed their stance earlier this year so that guns that came as a handgun/other can be converted back and forth as you wish.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=606813

Note, this generally mentions pistols & rifles, but I think the foundation of the decision translates to shotgun -vs.- "other" as well.
Click to expand...

So does this also work with adding a shoulder stock to a pistol, similar to a black powder revolver with a shoulder stock but in modern calibers?
 
OK my (wife's) 20 gauge Ultra Featherlight originally was a Stake Out owned by LVPD and sold at auction without the 13" barrel. It actually has HG in the serialization which I thought meant Hand Gun , BUT actually on research last night means Hand Guard as the foreend has (still) this strap which was meant to protect the hand from the wrath of the 13" barrel. So it WAS a factory handgun. The deal is I put a stock and a 25" Deerslayer barrel on it for the wife for general use around the ranch. Last night I got out the factory (Choate made it) installed pistol grip and got out the tape measure. It would take a 17 1/12" barrel to make it over 26". So there is no advantage to having an ATF eyebrow raising sub 18" barrel on it. Much ado about nothing really, I'll bet most PG shotties take close to an 18" barrel to get to 26+" OAL, as usual we get a sum total of nothing new. Top gun below, note handstrap and unmarked receiver on the 37..
spring2008118.gif
 
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Most common shotgun receivers with an 18" barrel are close to 26" overall length, so there is only about the width of the added grip to cut off from the barrel, and then you are stuck with a specific shotgun configuration to remain legal.


In California it is not even an option because California borrows the federal 18" and 26" minimum size limits, but then defines a short barreled shotgun as something with less than either that fires fixed shotshells irregardless of whether it is shoulder fired or not.
So it doesn't matter that it would be legal at the federal level, with a barrel less than 18" it becomes an illegal short barreled shotgun.
The Taurus Judge is an illegal short barreled shotgun in California for the same reason, fires shotgun shells and has a barrel under 18" in length.
Additionally California law states just the parts to assemble such a device is the same as having it, so just possession of a shotgun barrel shorter than 18" in California and a shotgun that can use it would be felony possession of a short barreled shotgun (unless you have a legal federally NFA registered AOW which meets an exemption) even if your shotgun is in a legal configuration at state and federal level.

Others may wish to double check their state laws on short barreled shotguns and make sure they don't have a different definition than federal law, and/or require NFA registration to meet a state exemption as I know some other states also outlaw what are typically NFA items if they are not registered federally under state law as well.
This could theoretically result in a state having some law that classifies such a shotgun as a felony even if federally legal based on a different definition of 'shotgun'.
 
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In my state, you can't have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your car, I'm guessing these shotguns could be loaded?
 
FIVETWOSEVEN said:
In my state, you can't have a loaded rifle or shotgun in your car, I'm guessing these shotguns could be loaded?
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It looks like New Hampshire would consider it a Pistol (depending on how short the barrel) so you would have to play by those rules.

159:1 Definition. – Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length. It does not include antique pistols, gun canes, or revolvers.
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http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xii/159/159-mrg.htm
 
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