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170 Grain 30-30 bullet in a .308

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by vincyr, Jun 5, 2013.

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  1. vincyr

    vincyr Member

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    Can anyone point me to where I might find some data on loading a 170 grain bullet designed for a 30-30 in a .308 case?(at 30-30 velocities, obviously) I am trying to get into reloading(I know, lousy timing on my part), and so far the only .30 cal bullets I have found are some 170 Grain Speer DeepCurls, which I found out after I bought them were meant for a 30-30. I asked Speer if they could be loaded in a .308, and was told that that particular bullet had not been tested in that cartridge, and that if they ever did test it, they would publish the data. I later found some references to loading .308 with 30-30 bullets at 30-30 velocities. This made sense when I thought about it. And it seems like a good idea too. I almost got a 30-30 instead of my .308, since the 30-30 would fit 90% of the hunting scenarios I could envision(and what can I say, its a Classic), but I opted for the cartridge with a bit more reach, just in case I might need it. This sounds like a "have cake and eat it too" set up. I could have the 30-30 powered rounds for general hunting, with a couple "reach out and touch something" rounds on hand in case the need arises. Is there any good source of load data if I try to undertake this project? The velocity range that Speer lists for this bullet in a 30-30 is around 1650fps at the low end and just shy of 2200fps at the high end.
     
  2. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    From Hodgdon Youth Loads:

    170gr bullet isn't listed on their youth loads, but the above still applies. Check their on-line loading data for H4895, .308win loads in the ~180gr bullet weight. Reduce as above.
     
  3. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    :confused:
    I would be curious to find out why a 170gr .308 could not, or should not, be used in a 308 Win? Other than lack of loading data?
    The have 168 and 175 gr bullets, what is different about a 170?
     
  4. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    The 170 FP is designed for lower velocity than the 168 or 175 SMK's. It may still work well at 308 velocity, I don't know, but loading it down to 30-30 levels does sound fun. :)
     
  5. Haxby

    Haxby Member

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    If you have, or can find, IMR 3031 or IMR 4895, Speer has data for the 180 grain deep curl. The start loads should be just right.
     
  6. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I would think that a bullet designed to function (mushroom, expand) at 1800-2000 fps would probably expand too rapidly and not penetrate enough at 2500-2800 fps.

    FWIW, I've been loading the reverse; premium 30. cal. bullets in my 30-30 single shot. Not for hunting as much as just wanted to try pointy bullets, but I could prolly find a spritzer that would work at 30-30 velocities...
     
  7. HexHead

    HexHead Member

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    Have your tried the Hornady LeveRevolution bullets?
     
  8. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    The 308 Win has load data down to 110 gr bullets up to 208. (well Hodgdon does)

    So why is the 170 a red headed step child? Is it made differently??:confused:

    I have shot 110 gr bullets in my 30-06 just fine.
     
  9. MtnCreek

    MtnCreek Member

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    It's not the weight, it's the construction. The flat point bullets that are made for 30-30's are made to perform at 30-30 velocity (optimal expansion at ~2,000fps). Up the velocity to 2,750 and the bullet may not stay together on impact. Same goes for your 110 varmint bullet in 30-06, but that fragmentation is sometimes desired on a varmint. I load a 125gr Nosler BT in .308 and 300wm. In the .308, it's a suitable (but a little light) load for our SE'ern whitetail. In the 300wm, the bullet blows up on impact.
     
  10. tygranch

    tygranch Member

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    Would .307 Winchester data be applicable? It's my understanding it was developed for the mod 94 and is basicly a rimmed version of the .308. They use the same dies anyway.
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Yes, they are made differently...
    Like said above bullets made for the 30-30 will reliably expand at lower velocities than bullets meant for the 308 because the 30-30 generates less velocity than the 308. I'm sure you heard using a pointy bullet meant for the 308 or 30-06 in a 30-30 isn't a bad idea because it's pointy but because they might not expand at the lower velocities associated with the 30-30. In this case the opposite is the case.

    To the OP, I suggest you try the "reduced load data for H4895" with that bullet and see how the bullet reacts. (read holds together) If you can increase the velocities up near "normal" 308 velocities then you need to worry about what happens when the bullet hits game at those elevated velocities. You might want to sacrifice an inexpensive cut of beef to test that. I have a feeling that bullet will not perform well under those conditions but it's worth a try. (sorry)
     
  12. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Yes, I can understand that it is not the "ideal bullet" configuration (FN) for the velocity of a 308. It also may not be the "Ideal" for damage to the game animal. I still think it can be shot through a 308 at reduced velocity. Keep it below 2,000 fps or so and why would it fall apart?

    They also state to use only their load data.

    http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/reloading_manual/default.aspx

    Heck you can load it with Trail Boss.;) Will it expand? I have no idea.

    http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf
     
  13. BKS

    BKS Member

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    Federal Fusion Lite is loaded in 308 with the 170gr bullet. It is a reduced recoil load and is smoke on whitetails out to around 100 yards. My lil guy used them last year in my Ruger GSR on two deer, 1 shot - 1 Deer x 2
     
  14. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    In my Speer manual the .308 starting load for IMR4064 is 41.0 grains with their 165grain bullets, giving 2391 fps, and 39.5 grains of IMR4064 with their 180 grain bullet, giving 2260 fps.

    It's reasonable to split the difference and say the starting load for a 170 grain bullet would be 40.0 grains, which might give about 2300 fps.

    Use the same rationale for working up a load with a different powder.
     
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    There is no reason not to load a .30-30 bullet to .30-30 velocity in a .308 cartridge, if .30-30 ballistics are enough for you. Like for deer at moderate ranges.
    In fact Norma used to make a factory load they called the ".30-30-06," a .30-06 round at .30-30 ballistics for use on medium game in Europe. I have loaded some and they are a pleasure to shoot.
    Unfortunately, I do not have a "recipe" for such in .308. Load development with a chronograph would produce one in pretty short order, though.
    Or you could get pretty close with MichaelK's logic.
     
  16. mothernatureson

    mothernatureson Member

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    30-30

    I have loaded 150 gr flatnose 30-30 bullet in 30-06 @2600 fps, works real
    well on whitetail. I wouldn't load them any faster though. good, accurate load(IMR3031)

    mothernatureson
     
  17. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    This is a great question. I have an old mauser that was converted to .308 Win at some point in it's life prior to arriving in my hands. The problem is that it's an older Spanish Mauser, believe it is a 1895 style action and not the stronger Mauser 1898 style action. The bolt is "cock on closing" vs "cock on opening", I think this is how you know the difference? I am not a mauser expert.

    Anyway, long story short, I am not sure I should be shooting full power .308 loads with this rifle. 30-30 level loads using flat point or round nose bullets might be safer. I am very interested in this thread for that reason. Also, in my case using the .30-30 style bullets makes alot of sense, as I already have 4 .30-30 rifles (3 winchester 94's and a savage 99). It would make sense to just buy one type of bullet to use in all the rifles (including the .308 mauser) to keep the supply chain simple.

    I have wondered about this too. Assume any .307 load data for a lever-gun would be safe to use with .308 in a bolt gun?
     
  18. ASCTLC

    ASCTLC Member

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    What twist does a 30-30 typically have, same as a typical 30-06?

    Andy
     
  19. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    The 170 30-30 Flatnose Deep Curl (just a new name for Gold Dot) is a FN for use in a lot of 30-30's with a tubular magazine. Without actually loading and shooting it myself I do not see how it will be any different out of a 308, or 30-06 if kept at a lower velocity??

    I have lots of 110 soft point bullets for a 30 carbine, I can shoot them in my 30-30 but can not load them up in the magazine. It's a 2 shot lever action then, one in the chamber and one in the tube.
     
  20. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    There is data on the Speer bullet WEB site specifically for their "new" DeepCurl bullets. I suggest making copies of all the data available while it lasts because as soon as they release their next manual it will be removed from the site. (there are dozens of files available)
    http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/reloading_manual/default.aspx
     
  21. vincyr

    vincyr Member

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    OK, so I found a load for a cast bullet that seems to fit(from Lyman:170 grain bullet, 1850fps with min load, 2270fps with max) Would that data be safe to use with a jacketed bullet?
     
  22. garybotkin

    garybotkin Member

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    Use the data for a .307 Winchester.
     
  23. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    No, you should not be shooting full power 308 loads in a M1892, M1895 Mauser. Full power 308 loads are either at, or exceed, the proof loads for those actions.

    As a data point, period 7mm Mauser ammunition, tested after the Spanish American War, factory 173 FMJ clocked at 2200 fps out of a 29” barrel. If you look at 7MM data, this was not high pressure ammunition, you should keep your reloads 40 Kpsia or less.

    I shot thousands of 168’s at 200 yards standing and sitting rapid fire with a load of 168 SMK 39.0 grains IMR 4895, LC cases, CCI #34/WLR primers. This load is low pressure and superbly accurate, goes just at 2500 fps in a 24" Krieger barrel, and I would not shoot anything of higher pressures in your rifle. You might try 38.0 grains with a 170's and see how it does.
     
  24. vincyr

    vincyr Member

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    Just heard back from Speer in regards to the Max velocity for the 170 grain DeepCurl

     
  25. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    No, it is not recommended to substitute LEAD data for a FMJ bullet. The velocity will be totally different. Apples and Watermelons or something.

    Sometimes you can do the reverse and use FMJ data for lead as it requires less pressure to get the lead bullet moving.


    What powders do you have available??
     
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