1851 navy 36 caliber for deer and hogs will it be enough?

[maint1517]

I didn't say it wasn't effective. I said it was marginal. As in, the minimum acceptable cartridge for the job. As in, no lesser cartridges need apply. It is effective, as long as everything goes perfectly and you avoid any major bones. Bones the big bores are easily able to plow through. We're talking about comparing a 158-173gr bullet at 1400fps to an 80gr swaged round ball at 1000fps or less. A TKO of 4 versus 12.

You guys who have never done it but are so sure it will work are welcome to try but you won't get an endorsement from anyone who's ever hunted with handguns.

I have hunted with handguns, as I just stated in my previous post. And I have taken hogs and black bear with a .357 magnum. All were clean kills or I would have never used it again.
I am still fairly new to BP revolvers and shooting.
But I am NOT new to deer,hog and bear hunting. With rifles and handguns.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Midland, you've firmly established that it did not blow up, this time. So, the next logical question is - How many times can you do that before your Navy begins to shoot loose?

 

[midland man]

Midland, you've firmly established that it did not blow up, this time. So, the next logical question is - How many times can you do that before your Navy begins to shoot loose?

well these are not the brass frame versions these are steel and since now our metal is way stronger than what these were originaly made with so I figured they should handle it when hunting, but when I am targeting I reduce as theres no reason to burn extra powder for punching paper!

 

[rodwha]

I didn't say it wasn't effective. I said it was marginal. As in, the minimum acceptable cartridge for the job. As in, no lesser cartridges need apply. It is effective, as long as everything goes perfectly and you avoid any major bones. Bones the big bores are easily able to plow through. We're talking about comparing a 158-173gr bullet at 1400fps to an 80gr swaged round ball at 1000fps or less. A TKO of 4 versus 12.

You guys who have never done it but are so sure it will work are welcome to try but you won't get an endorsement from anyone who's ever hunted with handguns.

Marginal means borderline or questionable.

Not I. As I said I prefer larger calibers (for everything but small game).

As to a ball they are much more capable and effective than people give them credit for.

 

[rodwha]

i'm thinking as I just proved 4f goex at 30grs and 1/8th inch lubed wad and .375 round ball will not blow up the cylinders on both my 51' colts so this is a max charge I figured it would have enough power within 25yrds??

Standard Goex powder is rather weak. 4F of it probably doesn’t even get as good as 3F Swiss, Olde E, or T7. You’d be better served by any of those than 4F Goex.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

Midland - I think most of us here are willing to unlearn what we thought we knew. Your work with a 4f max-loaded Navy is of the greatest interest and valuable. I've been shooting these pistols for a few decades and this 4f max-load .36 business is new territory for me.

 

[midland man]

Midland - I think most of us here are willing to unlearn what we thought we knew. Your work with a 4f max-loaded Navy is of the greatest interest and valuable. I've been shooting these pistols for a few decades and this 4f max-load .36 business is new territory for me.

hey don't feel bad as it's new for me as well and not trying to discredit anyone as I have learned in life we learn until we are put in the dirt! and just to hopefully help everyone understand I just got more into blackpowder two years ago but before that I just hunted with a bp rifle for the extra season chasing deer but since I gotten older my interest took me further into the bp world and now I love playin with this stuff, I founds it's a labor of love and a whole lotta fun!!

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Yes indeed, I too have been hunting with pistol, shotgun and rifle for many moons, both with modern and black powder. I didn't give much thought to using 4f as well. I just recently in the last year or so got up to speed on hunting with cap and ball revolvers and I am having a great time with it. As to a .357 being marginal for hunting, keep in mind it was developed to blast through a car engine block and heavy sheet metal to stop gangsters in the 30s. I have been told that a 125 grain bullet would not take down a ram silhouette at 200 yards. But being dumb and not knowing any better I did it anyway. Seemed to surprise the fellow shooting a .44 mag next to me that told me that. Go figure.

 

[dickydalton]

hey don't feel bad as it's new for me as well and not trying to discredit anyone as I have learned in life we learn until we are put in the dirt! and just to hopefully help everyone understand I just got more into blackpowder two years ago but before that I just hunted with a bp rifle for the extra season chasing deer but since I gotten older my interest took me further into the bp world and now I love playin with this stuff, I founds it's a labor of love and a whole lotta fun!!

Are you weighing those charges? or measuring them?

 

[midland man]

Are you weighing those charges? or measuring them? measuring them.

 

[dickydalton]

Not to be obtuse but, another poster once was using a measure that measured 5+ grains off at 45 grains. Is it a possibility that you have such a measure? 30 grains AND a wad doesn't fit in my 1851's as I recall.
I will try it again to make sure.

 

[midland man]

Not to be obtuse but, another poster once was using a measure that measured 5+ grains off at 45 grains. Is it a possibility that you have such a measure? 30 grains AND a wad doesn't fit in my 1851's as I recall.
I will try it again to make sure.

i'm using a pistol measure that came with my first black powder pistol which was a kit and it was a 58 remy which i didn't like so i sold it but kept the measure and the measure is graduated from 5-45grs with a lock screw, plus using a 1/8th inch lubed wad as well. https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...ame/TR1307+TRADITIONS+REVOLVER+POWDER+MEASURE heres the link to the same thing i use!

 

[midland man]

i am a colt lover

 

[dickydalton]

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[Steel Hayes]

Is it a possibility that you have such a measure? 30 grains AND a wad doesn't fit in my 1851's as I recall.

I make a special 28grn 3f with the Colt conical and it fits into the Pietta ‘51 just fine.

 

[dickydalton]

View attachment 800643

I make a special 28grn 3f with the Colt conical and it fits into the Pietta ‘51 just fine.

And all I'm saying is that that's a "special 28 grain 3F". The point I was making is that the measure he listed is off by 5 grains at the top end with Swiss 3F. I have 5 1851/1861's and all of the cylinders hold about the same amount, none of them 30 grains with a wad and round ball.

 

[midland man]

And all I'm saying is that that's a "special 28 grain 3F". The point I was making is that the measure he listed is off by 5 grains at the top end with Swiss 3F. I have 5 1851/1861's and all of the cylinders hold about the same amount, none of them 30 grains with a wad and round ball.

I can't get swiss 3f or any swiss at my gun shop all I can get is goex 3f,1f,2f etc!

 

[rodwha]

I can't get swiss 3f or any swiss at my gun shop all I can get is goex 3f,1f,2f etc!

If they can get standard Goex they can get Goex Olde Eynsford, which is much like Swiss. If you are wanting to hunt with a BP pistol it’s a must (or Swiss or Triple 7). With a heavy enough bullet one can still get fair penetration but with such a low velocity the wound from a wide meplat won’t be significant.

 

[dickydalton]

I can't get swiss 3f or any swiss at my gun shop all I can get is goex 3f,1f,2f etc!

A measure is a measure and 30 grains by volume is 30 grains by volume. If you measure the cylinder holes in your cylinder then you will know how many grains (By Volume) of ANY powder that will fit.

 

[midland man]

A measure is a measure and 30 grains by volume is 30 grains by volume. If you measure the cylinder holes in your cylinder then you will know how many grains (By Volume) of ANY powder that will fit.

well I have discovered like some powders compress different depths than others do so consistency at 30 grs maybe but some compress deeper than others I have found.

 

[rodwha]

And not all measures are created equally. 30 grns in one might not be 30 grns in another. And to show this my rifle powder measure doesn’t even come close to what the cheesy pistol measure throws from the free Cabelas starter kit that came with my pistol.

 

[midland man]

And not all measures are created equally. 30 grns in one might not be 30 grns in another. And to show this my rifle powder measure doesn’t even come close to what the cheesy pistol measure throws from the free Cabelas starter kit that came with my pistol.

yeah I think i'll order another pistol measure just to see!

 

[dickydalton]

And not all measures are created equally. 30 grns in one might not be 30 grns in another. And to show this my rifle powder measure doesn’t even come close to what the cheesy pistol measure throws from the free Cabelas starter kit that came with my pistol.

That is the point I was trying to get across.

 

[Eyrie G. Dogg]

And not all measures are created equally. 30 grns in one might not be 30 grns in another.

I have three powder measuring devices. Two are the screw lock type, one of which has the funnel attached and also a flask with various spouts. Each has its own idea of what X grains look like. Clocks, politicians and lawyers will agree long before those suckers do.

 

[Tommygunn]

Grains is a unit of weight. Unless you're actually weighing your charge on an appropriate scale, you don't really know your 30 grain charge is actually 30 grains. The spout or measures approximate the charge, but are not 100% accurate.