1851 Navy Squareback on GB: a little info help please!

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expat_alaska

expat_alaska

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The GB seller says it is the proxy seller for this pistol:

"We are selling this revolver for a gentleman. I have to admit I am no expert in percussion guns. The gentleman that has consigned this gun, to us, refers to it as an officers model. I will have to ask him why he refers to it as an officer's model. It is an actual Colt. According to the owner, Colt reintroduced the gun in a limited production run. Again, I will have to reach out to him and get more info."

It is an 1851 Navy .36 replica, and advertised as an "Officer's Model", which I have never seen in relation to any 1851 Navy originals or repros. It has a very large scallop on the RH recoil shield, very "blondish" wood, faint case colors, the load lever pivot screw enters from the right side (and, to me, that denotes an early Italian manufacturer for that item, as I have never seen any Colt manufactured 1851 Navies that way), and no Italian proof marks or manufacturer date that I can see.

I need others to weigh in here like Fingers McGee and other good sources as to whether or not this is any generation Colt.

IMHO, I believe it to be a High Standard repro or similar.

And, for $750 minimum bid with a reserve, the guy must be very proud of it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/637275496

I believe it is going to stay on GB for a long time unless it tweaks someone's "buy" emotion.

Correct me if I am wrong: I have never been infallible.

Jim
 
HI Expat
I notice he dosn't have any pics, of any of the markings on it. The cut out for the loading area is small looking also. Looks like just another Italian 51. to me.

Rebel Dave
 
Its a squareback so the loading lever screw does come in from the right. On later models with rounded or oval trigger guard that's when they switched the screw.to the left side.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/196#detail

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/199#detail

I'm given up trying to figure out Second and Third Generation Colt selling prices. Recently an engraved Colt Paterson sold for $2,400.00 dollars yet its sister even better engraved sits at $1,800.00. Go figure.:confused:
 
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I'd ask for some more pictures at least for a picture of the writing on top of the barrel and if their is any markings on the underside of the barrel. I'm starting to notice that sellers on there will block bidders that have questions. So good luck.
 
It appears to be a Second Generation Colt. My C-Series and many others I've seen all have those blondish grips on them. Ask the seller for a partial SN and a pick of the top of the barrel.
 
It appears to be a C series 2nd Generation 1851 Navy Colt - There's no such animal as an Officer's Model 1851. If the SN is under 24900 it's a C Series. From 24900 to around 28150, it would be an F Series. Current Blue Book value for one NIB with papers is $750. This one rates between %95 and 98% because of handling marks and lack of box with a value of $500 - $600.

Second Gens had serial numbers on the barrel, frame, trigger guard, back strap, loading lever, Cylinder and wedge. The 2nd Gens did not have proofmarks.
 
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Fingers, wouldn't it have "36 cal" stamped on the rear of the trigger guard in the pic shown?
 
Oh I see. I tried everything I could to make out that stamp. Definitely a "C" Series Colt.

My '51 Colt 'C' Series does not have a 36 caliber stamped neither do the originals.
 
OK, I'm lost. Mine is marked in the same places as C and F series, but the serial number is 68701. What do I have and when was it made?
 
Thanks, Fingers, to your always knowledgeable reply. I know that original Colt 1851 Second models had the load lever pivot screw enter from the right side, but all of the repros I have seen enter from the left side.

The only exception I have is my Replica Arms El Paso Texas 1848 Pocket Pistol, which is historically correct.

1848%20Pocket%20008_zpsvrb3fcqv.jpg
 
"OK, I'm lost. Mine is marked in the same places as C and F series, but the serial number is 68701. What do I have and when was it made?"
If the markings are the same except for the serial number being too high for a C or F Series, that sounds like an original 19th century gun. Pics would help.
 
Thank you guys for all your input. I will take pictures tomorrow and try to post them. Did the 2nd Generation back strap have a small tail on it, similar to Pietta's, only smaller?
 
Reb Holister said:
Thank you guys for all your input. I will take pictures tomorrow and try to post them. Did the 2nd Generation back strap have a small tail on it, similar to Pietta's, only smaller?
Click to expand...

Go one Gunbroker and look at the Colts and try to match your grips with some on there.

We really do need a picture to see what you're talking about.
 
Crawdad1 said:
Its a squareback so the loading lever screw does come in from the right. On later models with rounded or oval trigger guard that's when they switched the screw to the left side.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/196#detail

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/199#detail
Click to expand...

That is maybe true insofar as original Colts. I am finding that is not so with Italian pistols.

Evidently ASM did not follow suit when it came to repros, as the screw enters from the right, as it does on my ASM 1848 Pocket.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633693668

When it comes down to it, Colt was just selling guns with the tooling they had for several pistols. Economy of scale, even back then.

When it comes to the newer Colt whatever generation pistols, I don't see the interest insofar as the price goes. I know there are people out there that love and collect and can afford them, and kudos to those folks as well as the information they provide. I just don't have the financial resources that some of you have to enter this genre.

Insofar as the original 1851 Colts, the squareback trigger guard did not last long (long story behind that: Swayze), and as Sam Colt was not one to waste parts, there are several variations in that interim transition period between the SB/RB TG and the load-lever pivot screws, as well as the load-lever catches/latches, and the load aperture. The same was true with the 1848/1849 Pocket pistols.

Just to add to the confusion there are at least 4 different Colt 1851 Navy round trigger guards in brass, not to mention the steel/iron ones.

If one wants to state that only one configuration is correct, one truly needs to do more research.

Jim
 
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expat_alaska said:
the load lever pivot screw enters from the right side (and, to me, that denotes an early Italian manufacturer for that item, as I have never seen any Colt manufactured 1851 Navies that way), and no Italian proof marks or manufacturer date that I can see.
Click to expand...

That's what you said and I said that I've never seen a Squareback '51 Navy Colt, whether it was an Original, Second or Third Generation, that has the loading lever screw enter from the left.
 
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