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1858 Rapid Fire

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by damoc, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. damoc

    damoc Member

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    Hi ive been working on reliable cylindar change and fireing trying to recreate
    some civil war legends and hollywood bs.
    In particular trying to fire rapidly but safely and acurately the 1858 remington.

    popularised by movies like pale rider where clint eastwood changes out his
    conversion cylindar like a modern speedloader.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=610YsqZCtHc

    wikipedia lists the 1858 being popular because officers could carry an extra cylindar to speed the reload.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858

    So i have tried to recreate this and its not as easy as it sounds mainly
    because you have to have the lube done well otherwise the cylindar will
    bind and you wont be able to remove the cyl pin.

    These are close to full loads 35 grains fffg 454 ball and closer to 40 in the last
    cylindar which is a conversion cyl shooting colt45 loaded with 454 ball.

    I expect i may catch some flak for breaking a couple of safety rules like
    full 6 loaded and caps on before the cylindar was in the gun but its the only
    way i could see to test this as i realy dont think a civil war officer in the middle of battle only loaded 5 out of 6.

    I am alone on private property with a cushion on the ground in case of accidental drop of the cylindars and this vid is not public so dont rag on me to hard as i just wanted to share it with you old farts.

    Also these are shots 73 to 96 since last cleaning apart from wiping excess
    grease off I noticed that the first 24 shots after cleaning are more likely
    to blow of caps so i feel a bit of crud is good for reliability.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kqEgijuCu4
     
  2. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    not bad! I roll my cylinders in from the right, and out to the left, and I couldn't tell if that's the way you did it, [due to the outdoor lighting in your video, I think] but your speed is quite respectable.
     
  3. SixxshootinSam

    SixxshootinSam Member

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    Thats a lotta cylinders! And not everyone here follows your every 'safety violation'. Only a few.
    Is it easy to get BP supplies there? I assume you are in Australia?
     
  4. damoc

    damoc Member

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    Nah grew up in Australia but living in California now.
     
  5. damoc

    damoc Member

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    I think i do it all from the right hand side most of the time but its almost
    muscell memory now.

    I dropped the cyls in this video but i doubt very much if a civil war officer
    dropped his unlike modern defense training.

    and its easier for me to catch them on the right for some reason
     
  6. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    I doubt many owned more than one spare cylinder, but I am impressed. What lube did you use?
     
  7. damoc

    damoc Member

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    pure beeswax and lard 40/60 fully covering each ball with a little dab of just
    plain lard in each cylindar pin hole.

    i have lube all the way to the end of the barrel and still no major leading
     
  8. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    that's almost exactly what my lube is,but I add a ''smidge'' of Thompson's Bore Butter.
     
  9. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    Hey, thanks for sharing that video with us. I think you did a pretty darn good job with that 1858. I'm not wild about dropping the spent cylinders on a blanket like you did but I assume you are trying to show what someone would probably do if they were in a gun battle. Not exactly a lot of time to worry about scratching up a cylinder when someone is shooting back at you. You really showed why the 1858 is superior to the Colt open tops when it comes to swapping spent cylinders for loaded ones.

    What lube system did you use? Lubed felt wads under the ball or lube over the ball?

    p.s. Never mind...just read where you used lube over the ball. I wonder how lubed felt wads would work for you.
     
  10. ClemBert

    ClemBert Member

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    BTW, the preacher in Pale Rider is using cartridges as you probably know. I read where the movie is supposed to take place in 1850. I'm not sure how they reconcile the use of all these post 1850 technologies as seen in the movie such as cartridges or "more modern" firearms. Its common for these movies to use blank cartridge firing weapons for safety reasons. They don't seem to have the dilemma with caps you pointed out. That's Hollywood for ya.:cuss:
     
  11. Berkley

    Berkley Member

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    This old fart really enjoyed that!:D Thanks for making and posting the video.
     
  12. btz

    btz Member

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    ha, and people think bp can't lay down similar firepower to similar guns! thats real impressive, keep it up.
     
  13. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    Takeing into account the Civil War, BP revolvers have probably taken more lives than all other hand guns....
     
  14. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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  15. ak-kev

    ak-kev Member

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    Very good video sir. You did a nice job with that. I seriously doubt I could do it that fast. Thank you for sharing. Kevin.
     
  16. Magwa45

    Magwa45 Member

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    Nice job! But I think the old timers, such as cavalry and bushwackers would just carry 3 or 4 revolvers, such as an 1860 Army to start with. Then add a couple 1851 Navy revolvers and add to that some pocket pistols to boot. It just takes to much time to switch cylinders when the lead is flying and lives are on the line.
     
  17. damoc

    damoc Member

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    i expect you are right about just carrying extra revolvers i think it would have been hard to get spare cyls that fit correctly anyway.

    lol i just watched josey wales last night and he seemed to have a nice collection of extras.
     
  18. ultradoc

    ultradoc Member

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    nice vid. thanks for sharing!
     
  19. Hellgate

    Hellgate Member

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    I agree with Magwa45,
    The Bushwhackers, jayhawkers, & Confederate irregular cavalry carried multiple revolvers and occasional sawed off shotguns. You shot one gun dry, holstered and pulled another. 4-6 guns were not unusual. I read [and everything you read is true ;>)] that there has never been a documented case of a Confederate irregular cavalryman that was ever killed by a Union saber because of their use of multiple revolvers. I believe the cylinder swapping is pretty much pure hollyweird but fun to do and watch anyway. Proficient gun handling is always an admirable skill regardless of the gun used. I doubt spare cylinders were ever issued other than in a presentation case gift set for some dignitary.
     
  20. Noz

    Noz Member

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    Watching the Pale Rider sequence, If I were the bad guy, I would have waited until Clint pulled the cylinder form the gun and I'd have blown him away at that time. For crying out loud, the guy is standing there with a disabled weapon.

    I did like damoc and the actual speed shooting sequence.
     
  21. 45-70 Ranger

    45-70 Ranger Member

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    Pretty neat. Wish my basepin was a free as yours! Oh well, still making minor repairs to an abused/used '58!

    The mention of multi-pistols reminds me when I was in my late 20's I was part of a CW Re-enactment unit in Waco Tx. I carried the following: Original Gallagher carbine, Original S&W Mod 1 second issue, Original Sharps Pepperbox, and the following repos" 2nd Mod Dragoon, two Remington '58's, Colt '51 Navy, Remington Navy, 1860 Light Cav Sabre. All this was on me or my saddle. But I was a force to behold in those days. My horse was gun trained and was fantastic. I'd ride up blazing away until I ran dry then I'd ride off. Those were fun days to play soldier as we all got up after the battle and have a brew. (A lot better than where I was a year or two before that's for sure! We just zipped 'em up and sent 'em to G.R....)yeah, I'll take re-enactment anyday over the jungle days for sure!

    Loved the video, sure blasted through some powder and shot there!

    Wade
     
  22. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    If you forget Hollywood and go more into contemporary Civil War literature you'll discover that the more popular way to speed load was to carry extra revolvers, not loaded cylinders. Also cavalrymen and others carrying a revolver didn't carry more then 12 additional paper-cartridges. :uhoh:

    Obviously they didn't contemplate a western style movie shootout.

    On the other hand they seem to have been more careful in making every shot count. ;)
     
  23. damoc

    damoc Member

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    Thanks for all the great replies I do personally think it was more likely
    that multiple revolvers and other firearms were used probably just picked
    up and added to the belt as the oportunity presented itself.

    Im still amazed they could even build a revolver back then let alone
    make matching cyls which would all be interchangeable so this is another
    reason I think it was unlikely and rare but it seems like it was possible.

    by the way swapping out with a new cyl each time is what is preventing binding of the pin which was the drawback i first noticed with this revolver.

    each time it gets the new cyl the little dab of lard i put in the pin hole
    relubes and washes out the crud so it never builds up enough to
    prevent operation of the cylindar.
     
  24. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Returning to the Civil War.... :D

    The Army's Ordnance Department received some complaints from the field concerning powder fouling, and how it sometimes made it necessary to hand-assist the cylinders on Remington's so they'd turn after as little as 12 rounds. Usually if not always the only lublicant that was available was water from a canteen.

    To support your theory, some cased Remingtons as well as Colt's included an extra fitted cylinder.

    So far as the Union was concerned, revolvers were commonly reloaded with combustable paper cartridges, not loose powder from a flask followed by a ball. This did speed things up a little bit. ;)
     
  25. sltm1

    sltm1 Member

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    Great video, and gun handling. Go to show that there isn't a "correct" way to change out cylinders, depend's on the gun and the shooter. The hand in my Rogers & Spencer is longer than on my Remie, so I've taught myself to roll the cylinder out to the right, then load a new one from the left (holding the gun sideways).
     
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