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1860 loading lever

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Blackpowderwarrior, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Gentlemen,
    Everytime i take my 1860 out with the Howell conversion my latch that holds the loading level to the barrel pops off after a few shots. I've filed the spot it slides into for a perfect glove-like fit then hit it with locktight but after a few shots she starts coming off. Any adhesive recommendations ? Has anyone else had this issue?
    Btw im shooting 45 schofield 230 grn cowboy load ammo out of it
     
  2. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Had similar issue with a dragoon. Take the lever latch out and fashion a spacer under the spring so it utilizes the full spring tension.
    Worked for me.
     
  3. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Thanks for the reply Skeeterfogger ill check that out first thing in the am
     
  4. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    You’re saying the post/catch that the spring on the end of the loading lever catches on comes out of the dovetail in the barrel, right? I don’t see how shimming the spring will fix that at all.

    try using a center punch to raise some metal on the dovetail//barrel facing end of the post, and try green loc-tite.
     
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  5. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    "my latch that holds the loading level to the barrel pops off after a few shots".
    Sounds to me the latch is slipping out of the post.
     
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  6. Captain*kirk

    Captain*kirk Member

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    I second upping spring tension.
     
  7. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Member

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    "I've filed the spot it slides into for a perfect glove-like fit then hit it with locktight but after a few shots she starts coming off. Any adhesive recommendations ?"
    Sounds to me like the post is slipping out of the dovetail in the barrel.
     
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  8. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Guess the op will clarify.
     
  9. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Thats exactly whats happening
     
  10. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Are those cowboy-loads smokeless powder? If so, the recoil impulse will be sharper than black, regardless of what pressure or velocity it is loaded to. If they are black powder loads, I may be wrong, but isn't a 230 grain bullet much heavier than the usual 200 grain conical used with cap-n-ball loads? That could be a bit more recoil that what the latch/dovetail can handle. Of course if others don't have the same problem, I may be barking up the wrong tree. I have a 1860 that I fought the latch stud coming-off-problem for years. Finally I made a very tight-fitting latch, did the center-punch thing, and then silver soldered it, and it has held ever since. I also cut the barrel down to 6" at the same time, I don't know if that made a difference, but it seems like less mass would. One time before that, I thought I had it whipped, then I tried 777 in it and it chain fired (never chain fired with black in 30 years) and blew the latch and the front sight off. !!! Anyhow, if those cowboy loads are smokeless, you might have better luck loading your Schofield brass with a 200 grain bullet and real black powder.
     
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  11. Mk VII

    Mk VII Member

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    It happened with my 1851 as well. There I was able to recut the dovetail for an 1860 latch (which they used on the last 1851s anyway).
     
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  12. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Ugly Sauce ,
    Thanks for the reply friend. Yes they are modern smokeless black hills ammunition cowboy loaded. The latch stud is giving me a hard time. Its popped off twice now. I filed on the dovetail a lil bit and hit it with some lock tite though i should have soldered it. I also have some 777 i thought about trying myself in my other 1860. Im thinking if it pops off again ill just take off the loading lever as ive pretty much dedicated that gun to my conversion cylinder. I just like the look of the gun with its loading lever on. Though im not a gun seller or trader so in all honesty I guess in my ise case it doesnt matter how it looks.

    MK VII
    Thanks for the reply friend, i didnt know that about the latch on the 51'. Though i though about putting my 51' chambered in 44 barrel on my 1860.
     
  13. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    I feel your pain. On my 1860, every time I thought I had it solved, I'd shoot it for a couple of years, and then off it would come. I even had a gunsmith tackle it once, worked great for a couple of years, but when it chain-fired with 777, off she flew again. Never found the latch stud or the front sight. But I do think that if you get the latch stud good and tight in the dovetail, peen the "lip" of the dovetail against the latch stud with a center punch, (gentle, don't beat it up too much) and then solder it, that should hold. I'm very confident that now mine won't come off again, it's had a good ten-year run now. Looks are important, I don't enjoy a pistol as much that looks goofy for any reason. If/when you get that latch stud soldered on there good, I'd re-evaluate using smokeless powder. Besides the latch-stud, it can't be that great for other parts of the pistol either. Black and smokeless just have different pressure curves/dynamics, again, regardless of what peak pressures they produce. Just because the cylinder can "take it", does not mean the rest of the pistol will "like it". :) Good luck and good shooting.
     
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  14. whughett

    whughett Member

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    My Uberti 1860 with 200, 230 and 250 grain bullets over Trail Boss has never had that problem. I’ve also shot those same bullets with other smokeless loads. May just be you have a looser fitted latch.
     
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  15. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    What kind of Locktite?
    I would try a dab of super glue or Gorilla glue on each side of the stud.
    And if that's what you already used them move up to a stronger epoxy adhesive.
    Don't give up on it yet, it may only need a drop or two of the right stuff to solve the problem.
    Then you can still use the lever if you swap barrels with your 1860, and every part will be in its proper place.
     
  16. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    Well, I don't see how any kind of adhesive will stick or bond to smooth steel very well. I mean, you can put a dab of epoxy on bare steel, and pick it off with a fingernail after it sets. And I'm sure plenty of people have not had a problem with light charges of smokeless and heavier than normal bullets. Even so, I don't see it as a "great" idea, even if you get away with it. But that's just me. I would not fire smokeless in my Trapdoor Springfields, even if it were loaded down to 400 fps. !!! I'm weird that way. In fact I only fire BP loads in my Modern Marlin...so that a smokeless load never finds it's way into my Model 1873 Springfield rifles. But many do load them with smokeless, to BP pressure levels. And some Trapdoors have mysteriously blown the "trap" off, with light smokeless loads. Not saying that any type of that kind of damage would happen with a cartridge conversion revolver, just saying it's a very different recoil impulse, even though it might "feel" the same as a BP load, and I believe it's a little bit harder on the gun. But of course, as always, "your results may vary". :)
     
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  17. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Thanks guys for all the great suggestions. I was using the loctite brand super glue. Ive thought about using a little shoe goo as a addition to the loctite.Believe it or not shoe goo is pretty damn strong adhesive. The reason for the conversion cylinder is for my lazy days where i want to shoot but may not have the time nor energy to clean my gun thouroughly. I also prefer to shoot black powder its just i just dont always have the time to thouroughly "get down"
     
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  18. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    I was thinking that super glue might work because it worked for me with a replacement front sight on a rifle.
    The sight dovetail was slightly undersized and the glue held so well I didn't want to break the bond to scoot it over a little to adjust it.
    That stuff held strong.

    Blackpowderwarrior, if you have glue left over then I would try to glue it again.
    Maybe the good bond simply wasn't made the first time.
    And maybe applying it to 2-3 spots or on each side will work better than putting it on only one spot.

    I wouldn't want to solder it because then it won't come off very easily even if you wanted to move it.
    That's how well I felt that the super glue worked for me on blued steel.
    Perhaps degreasing the steel will help the bond to form.
    Good luck with what ever path that you end up taking.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
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  19. whughett

    whughett Member

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    If your a hand loader IMO the only way to go with the conversion cylinders, other than black, is to use TrailBoss. Like you I’ll shoot the smokeless if I don’t want to clean the gun right away or for indoor shooting. I don’t know of any, some one might, If commercial loaded cartridges using TrailBoss
     
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  20. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Unfortinately i havent delved into hand loading cartridges yet but its on the list of things i want to learn. I just started casting rb and REAL projectiles and I enjoy it.
    whughett Ive also had 3 run ins with some monster black bears this year so a nice 250 grn smokeless round is always welcome in my wheel!
     
  21. whughett

    whughett Member

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    Not familiar with your Schofield rounds but sometimes just for smoke flame and boom I dump as much 3F in the 45C case as it will hold and seat a 250 grain down to its crimping groove and roll crimp. If I’m not mistaken this is pretty much what the original 45Colt was. Mr. Bruin will notice that for sure.
     
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  22. Ugly Sauce

    Ugly Sauce Member

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    If ya gotta go smokeless, I'd agree with Trail Boss. But I'd load a 200 grain with a thick wad to reduce the charge a bit. If there was a chance I was running into Blackie the Bear, I'd leave the 1860 at home and pack a Dragoon. If there's 250 grain bullets in the wheel, sitting on top of smokeless powder, take the loading lever off and leave it home for sure. !!!! :)

    True, if you solder it on, it won't come off easy....but...isn't....that what one wants? And actually, put the propane to it and it will come right off.

    I still disagree with the glue thing, but if I had to I'd try JB weld first. And last. But remember, every time that latch pops off, it distorts the dovetail a little bit. Sometimes a lot bit. Every time it pops off, it takes less force to do it again, generally speaking. Also, adhesives tend, and epoxies do, for sure, become soft with heat. I've never paid attention to how warm a revolver barrel gets, but something to consider.

    Again, good luck and good shooting.
     
  23. woodnbow
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    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    One of my favorite elk loads for pistols involved a hard cast 255 grain Keith style semi wad cutter. Another was a similarly hard cast wide flat nose 300 grain bullet. Either one will pass through a bull elk if it doesn’t hit heavy bone. I much prefer the flat point over round noses for killing power. I would expect good performance from your REAL bullet too.
     
  24. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    I’m a big fan of Brownells solder. 44? Or something like that. It doesn’t require a lot of heat like some of the silver solder did so you won’t necessarily have to reblue or refinish the area and it’ll stick that latch in place permanently or until you hit it with a torch again...
     
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  25. Blackpowderwarrior

    Blackpowderwarrior Member

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    Mr woodnbow the R.E.A.L packs a punch thats for sure. Mr. Bear would have a bad day if he ran into one. I live on top of a mountain and mr. Bear lives beside my house and i often hear him Growlin' at night. Its actually pretty damn terrifying if im outside and his long groan catches me off guard. Ive seen his She bear has cubs with her so i try and stay outta their way. I enjoy watching the bear family and wouldnt want to take a shot because they're pretty good neighbors BUT if i had to i would definately use the R.E.A.L
     
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