1873 SAA which caliber would you guys get ?

[Jackalope 1]

Curious how many grains of bp do 45 lc usually take ?

Buy a black powder loading manual from Lyman Reloading Products Company, I've had and still use the manual for more than 60 years, you can't go wrong.

 

[Jackalope 1]

I say that now is the time to begin your reloading hobby. .45 Colt is an excellent round to learn on. After you get your feet wet in reloading you won’t have to select your next firearm based on what cheap ammo is available. Don’t ever limit yourself. Life is too short.

Oh Wow, you hit the nail dead center, could not agree with you more, but he should not go cheap on reloading equipment, buy Redding T7 Press or Lyman 8 station press, have them both, love with first use, just can't find or buy small pistol primers.

 

[candymancan]

One BIG CAUTION, be sure you have very good cross venalation to the outdoors, melting lead creates very toxic fumes, can lead to cancers of all types, no BS, research honestly done has shown such to be true.

Yes i know this thanks for the heads up

 

[Jackalope 1]

In my experience this is quite true. I think the old corrosive primers were for more injurious to a gun than the black powder residue was.

Very true, the old primers contained mercury, very corrosive to steel and our environment.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

So i dont need a black powder frame to use black powder cartridges .

A modern replica of the Colt Single Action Army is made with modern steel, and can be fired with Smokeless ammunition, no matter what its frame configuration is.

Yes, you can shoot Smokeless ammunition in any modern replica that has a 'Black Powder Frame'.

By the same token, you can shoot ammunition loaded with Black Powder in any modern replica, no matter what its frame configuration is.

I shoot cartridges loaded with Black Powder in my 2nd Gen Colts all the time.

 

[candymancan]

A modern replica of the Colt Single Action Army is made with modern steel, and can be fired with Smokeless ammunition, no matter what its frame configuration is.

Yes, you can shoot Smokeless ammunition in any modern replica that has a 'Black Powder Frame'.

By the same token, you can shoot ammunition loaded with Black Powder in any modern replica, no matter what its frame configuration is.

I shoot cartridges loaded with Black Powder in my 2nd Gen Colts all the time.

View attachment 1023811

Ok thanks. Ya i knew you can use smokeless.. just wasnt sure about black powder since the black powder frame was mentioned.

Because i wanted a cattleman 2. I like the floating pin idea so i can carry 6

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

So i dont need a black powder frame to use black powder cartridges .

No it's just a name that's been tagged on the design since that design change occurred about the same time smokeless powder became available.

Also unless this has just changed with the last shipments, you CAN still get a Uberti with the fixed firing pin. It is by ordering a Cimarron with the black powder frame. That is what I was referring to above and what I meant by purest. I meant nothing about which powder you would intend to shoot but it seems as others have muddied the waters by taking my comment wrong and apparently are not aware at least until very recent the Cimarron's could still be had with the old action.

 

[czhen]

45 LC is a very pleasant caliber in pistol or rifle. The 357 pistols can be shoot with 38 is want too. However, some 357 might or not be loaded with 38 jamming is very common issue i.e. Winchester 94 since the 38 is a tad shorter.

 

[candymancan]

45 LC is a very pleasant caliber in pistol or rifle. The 357 pistols can be shoot with 38 is want too. However, some 357 might or not be loaded with 38 jamming is very common issue i.e. Winchester 94 since the 38 is a tad shorter.

Yes i noticed this with my 44 Henry Golden Boy. It jams alot and doesnt feed with 44 specisl.. but its fine with 44 magnum.. I also didnt like the puney pop rocks pop sound 44 special made.. sounded like a toy gun.. id rather spend the extra 10$ to get 44 magnum.

When i get the funds ill get a 45lc

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Yes i noticed this with my 44 Henry Golden Boy. It jams alot and doesnt feed with 44 specisl.. but its fine with 44 magnum.. I also didnt like the puney pop rocks pop sound 44 special made.. sounded like a toy gun.. id rather spend the extra 10$ to get 44 magnum.

All lever action rifles with a tilting carrier will be Over All Length sensitive. It is part of the design.

The Henry Golden Boy is a 22 Rimfire rifle. I suspect you have a Big Boy. As far as I know, the Big Boy design is basically the same as a Marlin Model 1894, with a tilting carrier, and will be OAL sensitive.

Lots of guys in CAS shoot replicas of the Winchester Model 1892. They are OAL sensitive. The same with the Marlin Model 1894.

The same is true of the Toggle Link design rifles such as the 1860 Henry, Winchester Model 1866, and Winchester Model 1873.

There is a minimum OAL for 38 Specials to feed properly in one of these rifles, but I don't recall exactly what it is right now.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Sorry, I don't get the reload black powder thing. I've reloaded for over 40 yrs, shot muzzleloaders for over 20 yrs and shot cap 'n ball maybe 10 years. Black powder means meticulous cleaning if you don't want rust/corrosion.

The biggest drawback to the cap 'n ball revolver in my mind is the cleaning required very soon after shooting...like same day. Admittedly your 1873 won't get as filthy as a cap 'n ball 1858, but you'll have to clean the gun and then clean out those cartridge cases if you intend to use them again. So there's a fair amount of work needed when you may be too tired to do it.

I reload both 45LC and 357. Most of the 357 I shoot is really 38 Spcl loads put up in 357 brass. They're quite gentle, low velocity (don't lead the barrel) and require only a few grains of smokeless pistol powder (Bullseye, Red Dot, or Promo...others would work as well). In the 357 brass and the 357 cylinder, there's a substantial safety margin and the 357 brass prevents creation of a crud ring that might cause extraction problems.

The 45LC smokeless loads need more lead, more powder, aren't as gentle, and operate closer to the margin than the 357/38 I generally shoot.

So, in a nutshell, if you decide to put up with the cleaning requirement and the increased cost of lead, the 45LC loaded with black powder may make sense. If you decide avoid the blackpowder cleaning demands and want to reduce costs, the 357/38 smokeless is the way to go. There are 7000 grains in a pound. A pound of Bullseye will load a lot more cartridges at 3 gr per load than a pound of black powder at 30 gr per load.

FWIW, I have a Davidson 4-click 5 1/2" 1873 waiting for my Brady Check at a NY gun shop. It's 357.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Sorry, I don't get the reload black powder thing. I've reloaded for over 40 yrs, shot muzzleloaders for over 20 yrs and shot cap 'n ball maybe 10 years. Black powder means meticulous cleaning if you don't want rust/corrosion. The biggest drawback to the cap 'n ball revolver in my mind is the cleaning required very soon after shooting...like same day. Admittedly your 1873 won't get as filthy as a cap 'n ball 1858, but you'll have to clean the gun and then clean out those cartridge cases if you intend to use them again. So there's a fair amount of work needed when you may be too tired to do it.

If you don't get the "black powder thing" that is fine. To each his own.

But some of us like the experience of shooting old firearms the way they were actually shot over 100 years ago. In addition, I have several antique S&W Top Break revolvers that I would not dream of shooting with modern Smokeless powder.

As I said earlier, Black Powder is not as corrosive as most shooters think.

I absolutely do not clean my revolvers, rifles and shotgun the same day I shoot them with ammo loaded with Black Powder. There are some tricks to make that possible. I have been loading Black Powder in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, 38-40 and 45-70 for twenty years, and I almost never clean my guns the same day I shot them. Shooting BP guns in CAS means cleaning two revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun, and I am just too tired after a day of shooting to clean them all the same day. Cleaning them a week later is fine, and as I said earlier I have often gone much longer than a week.

Contrary to what most people think, if BP fouling is coated with oil, it can no longer absorb moisture from the air. The fouling is like a sponge that is saturated with water, it cannot absorb any more water. Absorbing moisture from the air is the main reason BP fouling causes corrosion. If the fouling is soaked in oil, it will not absorb any moisture from the air and corrosion can be avoided.

I also do not take them apart to completely clean them as many shooters do, that's a good way to bugger up screw heads and accidentally cross thread tapped holes. There are a couple of tricks to avoid that. Any firearm that I intend to shoot mostly with Black Powder, I completely disassemble it, then I coat all the parts, including the inside of the frame, with a Black Powder compatible oil such as Ballistol before shooting. The oil will keep any fouling that gets inside the action from causing any corrosion. I take them completely apart maybe once a year to clean out all the goo that accumulates inside. There is always plenty of oily, black goo, there is never any corrosion.

Normal cleaning consists of wiping the bore and chambers with my favorite water based BP solvent and wiping the outside of the firearm too. Then a light coating of Ballistol to prevent any corrosion from happening. I have lots of antiques with pitted old bores. It is impossible to clean all the BP fouling out of all the pits. Coating the bore with Ballistol prevents any fouling left in the bottom of the pits from causing corrosion.

Here is a photo of one of my Colts, completely disassembled for its yearly cleaning. Notice there is lots of black, oily goo. Once all of that was cleaned away, there was no corrosion. I have been doing this for close to 20 years now, and it really works.






As far as cleaning the brass, simple as pie. At the end of a match all my brass gets dumped into a jug of water that has a squirt of dish soap in it. Some guys will add some vinegar, but you have to be careful or the acid in the vinegar will attack the brass. I never add vinegar. You will often hear guys talk about 'neutralizing' the fouling in the brass. That is incorrect. The name of the game is diluting the fouling by rinsing the brass a lot. When I get home I dump the brass out of the jug into a kitchen strainer in the kitchen sink. Then I fill the jug with fresh water and dump the brass back in. Shake it good, dump out the water, and repeat. After about 3 or 4 rinses the water in the jug is clear and the great majority of the fouling has been washed away. I allow the brass to dry over night, then dump it into my tumbler and run it for an hour or so, no different than brass that has been fired with Smokeless.

Here is my jug of dirty brass at the end of a match. Notice the brass still has some fouling on it and the water is cloudy with suspended BP fouling. Sitting on the floor of my car on the drive home keeps it stirred up.






Here is a batch of freshly loaded 44-40. Yes, the brass is stained. It never gets shiny again. I don't care. The brass is not dirty, it is clean, it is just stained. If I wanted shiny brass I would do some extra cleaning, but stained brass shoots just as well as shiny brass, trust me. The only advantage to shiny brass is it is easier to find in the grass.






I load all my BP brass on a Hornady Lock & Load AP progressive press. Here is a batch of 44-40 being loaded. Yup, the brass is stained, I don't care.

There are 7000 grains in a pound. A pound of Bullseye will load a lot more cartridges at 3 gr per load than a pound of black powder at 30 gr per load.

You are absolutely correct there. 7000 grains of BP in a pound means I can only get about 200 35 grain loads out of a pound of Black Powder. I have not priced Smokeless in a long time, but I used to put about 7.5 grains of Unique into 45 Colt. Yup, much more expensive to put 35 grains of FFg into a cartridge than 7.5 grains of Unique. Cannot argue with that.

Loading and shooting BP is an act of love. A bunch of years ago there were some new rules added to the SASS handbook regarding shooting Black Powder.

"Blackpowder category contestants are expected to understand they will contend with smoke obscured targets."

I wrote that. The idea was like JFK said so many years ago. "We do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

Sorry, I don't get the reload black powder thing. I've reloaded for over 40 yrs, shot muzzleloaders for over 20 yrs and shot cap 'n ball maybe 10 years. Black powder means meticulous cleaning if you don't want rust/corrosion.

The biggest drawback to the cap 'n ball revolver in my mind is the cleaning required very soon after shooting...like same day. Admittedly your 1873 won't get as filthy as a cap 'n ball 1858, but you'll have to clean the gun and then clean out those cartridge cases if you intend to use them again. So there's a fair amount of work needed when you may be too tired to do it.

I reload both 45LC and 357. Most of the 357 I shoot is really 38 Spcl loads put up in 357 brass. They're quite gentle, low velocity (don't lead the barrel) and require only a few grains of smokeless pistol powder (Bullseye, Red Dot, or Promo...others would work as well). In the 357 brass and the 357 cylinder, there's a substantial safety margin and the 357 brass prevents creation of a crud ring that might cause extraction problems.

The 45LC smokeless loads need more lead, more powder, aren't as gentle, and operate closer to the margin than the 357/38 I generally shoot.

So, in a nutshell, if you decide to put up with the cleaning requirement and the increased cost of lead, the 45LC loaded with black powder may make sense. If you decide avoid the blackpowder cleaning demands and want to reduce costs, the 357/38 smokeless is the way to go. There are 7000 grains in a pound. A pound of Bullseye will load a lot more cartridges at 3 gr per load than a pound of black powder at 30 gr per load.

FWIW, I have a Davidson 4-click 5 1/2" 1873 waiting for my Brady Check at a NY gun shop. It's 357.

As Driftwood said, to each his own but I personally prefer shooting black powder in my cowboy guns and my wife and I both shoot cowboy action, she shoots smokeless and I shoot black powder and I actually will spend less time cleaning my guns than I do hers. The so called horrible "cleaning demands" of black powder is not true with guns designed to shoot black and chambered in proper cartridges and doesn't have to be done immediately like the same day. I many times shoot a three day match and my guns won't get cleaned until a day after we get back home. Most of that misinformation comes from people shooting black powder substitutes and not the real thing.

When I do clean them it's not a bunch of fancy cleaners, just plain old water to clean with a spritz of ballistol down the bore and on a rag to wipe them down.

Also if you don't get the thrill difference in the comparison of a little 3 grain load of bullseye in a little 38 to the fire, flames, and smoke from some caliber starting with a 4 that requires you to look through the fog to see the next target then well, that is just something us soot lords can't understand either. but as we say, to each his own.

 

[bannockburn]

I pretty much went the .45 Colt route with my SAA revolvers. First was an EMF Hartford Model copy of a Colt SAA. Always wanted one and this was the most affordable way to have one at the time. Next was a Ruger Vaquero, a gift from a very good friend of mine. Then there was the new-in-box Beretta Stampede that I got a great deal on at a gun show some years back. And at that same gun show I really hit the .45 Colt jackpot when I found a Rossi M92; and also in .45 Colt!

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Contrary to what most people think, if BP fouling is coated with oil, it can no longer absorb moisture from the air.

DJ,
Thanks for eloquently dispelling the myth concerning BP fouling.
I personally feel the mercuric primers did more damage to bores of the older guns from
the belief that they (the owner/shooter) were shooting smokeless.

Most of that misinformation comes from people shooting black powder substitutes and not the real thing.

Yikes! That brings back memories of cleaning Pyrodex from BP cases after it came out.
And then along came Golden powder/

JT

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I personally feel the mercuric primers did more damage to bores of the older guns from
the belief that they (the owner/shooter) were shooting smokeless.

Absolutely. We no longer use corrosive primers. Corrosive primers coupled with Black Powder fouling caused more corrosion than modern primers do with Black Powder.

Take a look at the lock plate of an antique percussion rifle sometime. Notice all the corrosion around the nipple caused by old corrosive caps. Then look at the lock plate of an antique flintlock rifle. Much less corrosion on the lock plate because no corrosive caps were used.

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

DJ,
Thanks for eloquently dispelling the myth concerning BP fouling.
I personally feel the mercuric primers did more damage to bores of the older guns from
the belief that they (the owner/shooter) were shooting smokeless.


Yikes! That brings back memories of cleaning Pyrodex from BP cases after it came out.
And then along came Golden powder/

JT

Yeah Hodgdon and Pyrodex are to blame for me missing out on the joy of shooting black powder for much of my life. When I was a kid I bought in to their advertising lie that it was easier to clean and less corrosive than real black powder. After my experience I was like if this is better than the real black powder I don't want anything to do with that stuff so seldom shot muzzleloaders and never loaded anything but smokeless cartridges. Then thanks to a friend at some point I saw the light and have never turned back and every since then I reload and shoot more black powder than anything.

 

[LeftyRed]

https://www.castbullet.com/reload/table.htm

Dennis has a good article on a very simple reloading setup. I was looking at prices and almost cried! The good old days.

You didn’t ask, but reloading the 45 is pretty easy and lots of fun. Especially on a bare bones setup like the one in the article. It was my first reloading setup and having to start over a few times, kept me busy and shooting during some low times. Plus, large pistol primers are easier to find now than small primers.

I have both calibers, and I much prefer the 45LC. Feels balanced. But my favorite two calibers are 44 Special or 45 Cowboy in the SSA style. But hardly ever see them at the store in these calibers, maybe by special order…….

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

https://www.castbullet.com/reload/table.htm

Dennis has a good article on a very simple reloading setup. I was looking at prices and almost cried! The good old days.

You didn’t ask, but reloading the 45 is pretty easy and lots of fun. Especially on a bare bones setup like the one in the article. It was my first reloading setup and having to start over a few times, kept me busy and shooting during some low times. Plus, large pistol primers are easier to find now than small primers.

I have both calibers, and I much prefer the 45LC. Feels balanced. But my favorite two calibers are 44 Special or 45 Cowboy in the SSA style. But hardly ever see them at the store in these calibers, maybe by special order…….

45 Cowboy is shot in 45 Colt revolvers. Never heard of one just chambered for the shorter cartridge. I personally use Schofield brass most of the time with black powder loads. I find it's a good balance between power factor and recoil, cost savings.

 

[SundownRider]

I have a Colt SAA in 45, simple reason is that’s an original chambering and I have reloaded that cartridge for more years than I want to admit.
But I would like to get another in 38-40. I reload for that cartridge as well and I like the fact that I can use 40S&W bullets. Ballistically, they are almost identical.
Plus the little bottleneck cases look really cool.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Yes i noticed this with my 44 Henry Golden Boy. It jams alot and doesnt feed with 44 specisl.. but its fine with 44 magnum.. I also didnt like the puney pop rocks pop sound 44 special made.. sounded like a toy gun.. id rather spend the extra 10$ to get 44 magnum.

When i get the funds ill get a 45lc

When you do get a .45 Colt, you are going to love that cartridge. Especially if you handload. Trust me. Working on obtaining another as I type. An EMF "Paladin".

 

[LeftyRed]

45 Cowboy is shot in 45 Colt revolvers. Never heard of one just chambered for the shorter cartridge. I personally use Schofield brass most of the time with black powder loads. I find it's a good balance between power factor and recoil, cost savings.

True, but shoot a custom SSA that was chambered in 45Cowboy and thought it was pretty cool. Plus the brass isn’t as tapered as the LC brass, which I would think last longer. But it’s all personal preference. I would take 41 Special over them all!

+1 on the Schofield brass!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So i want to get a Uberti cattleman 2 1873 5.5 inch, but im not sure which caliber i should get. I dont hunt or anything like that. I might occassionally wear it for self defense just because. But itll just mainly be another gun in my collection to shoot at the range with.. They have 2 options im looking at.. 357 or 45lc.

Im sure either would be fine, but looking at the ammo cost, 45lc seems to come in mainly boxes of 20 which is silly, and its 1.50$ a round on ammo seek, vs boxes of 50 for 357 at .80 cents a round..

Thats a big difference in ammo costs. But all i can ever find are the 45LC,357 i havent seen in 8 months that ive been looking.

.45 Colt, get a punch for .455" card wads from Buffalo Arms and some wool batting from the quilting store and make your own wads and cards. Don't forget to lube your cast bullets with BP-compatible lube. Cast Performance and Hunter's Supply both lube their bullets with a synthetic that works with black or smokeless, if you decide not to cast your own. HIGHLY recommend you get at least one reloading manual and read the first few sections on proper handloading processes and procedures. It'll help avoid ending up with a hook and eye patch. Black powder front stuffers and cartridge obey similar rules, not identical.

 

[Gordon]

I choose .45 Colt first , .357 second and .32-20 third in my traditional SAA types.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

One other thing, despite what you may have heard, Black Powder is not as corrosive as many shooters think.

It's not the "corrosiveness" it's the affinity for water, which forms droplets on the steel which rust. I live in Florida - 80% non-condensing humidity is not uncommon - and you WILL end up with rust if you don 't at least rinse off the hygroscopic residue of black powder within hours of shooting. Maybe in places where the humidity is low - deserts, mountains, the Great White North, etc. - leaving black powder residue for days is okay but in the tropics it's a very bad idea.