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1908 Winchester Model 94 Disassembly Help

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by ClH, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. ClH

    ClH Member

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    I recently received a 1908 Winchester Model 94, 32 caliber. Serial number 466186. I am disassembling the entire firearm to clean it. I have found a video on a newer model 94 (1940) that has assisted me but I have run into a road block. I cannot get the magazine tube off, hence the front forearm and end cap will not come off.

    I have removed both screws from the end cap. The two screws were attached to a dovetail assembly located between the barrel and magazine tube. So far I have had to use a lot of penetrating oil in the disassembling process but this is not working for the magazine tube.

    I cannot not get the magazine tube to pull out. I can rotate it about 1/8 of an inch. Can anyone provide me with some information on how to get the magazine tube off so I can complete the disassembly?

    Thanks for your help
     
  2. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

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    Have you removed the screw from the forearm end cap? It also goes through a notch in the mag tube that prevents it from coming out but will let it rotate some.
     
  3. ClH

    ClH Member

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    Yes, I have removed the two screws that the forearm end cap was secured to. There were two screws on each side of the forearm end cap that went into the "dovetail." Do you know how the magazine tube is removed? On this model does it pull out or is it threaded on? If it is threaded on, I would think it would unscrew counter-clock wise but I have never disassembled this model. It has gunk that has built up, hardened and gone into every location on this rifle since probably 1908. This makes removing any part very difficult and necessitates the use of penetrating oil. Any additional information you can provide would be much appreciated. Thank you very much for your fast reply.
     
  4. film495

    film495 Member

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    I have a 50s model 94 Winchester and gave up trying to get the mag tube out. It is supposed to just pull out - not threaded, but mine didn't and for fear of damaging it, I just ended up putting it back together and maybe over time the penetrating oil I put on it will loosen it up. I found a few tricks of putting a rod or heavy object into the tube and either pushing from the receiver or using an object in the tube like a slide hammer, but I didn't like how that would apply force to the end of the mag tube and the little screws that hold the cap are not supported by so much metal on the end of the tube - decided I didn't really have any particular need to get the tube off other than I wanted to clean it all up. My tube would also rock back and forth some, but after a few weeks of mucking with it and heating it and you name it, just put it back together for fear of making it worse than better.
     
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  5. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

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    On that model, once you drift the dovetail hanger which the forend cap screws to, the end cap and forend wood will slide forward enough to get penetrating oil on the tube to receiver joint. That plus wiggling it as much as possible should eventually free the tube. I have never seen a 94 tube that was threaded.
     
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  6. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    Have you removed the ONE screw thru the barrel/magazine band at the muzzle?
    Have you removed the magazine cap screw at the muzzle?
    This may solve your problem.
    Also remember to take note of the cartridge guide rails position if you remove them.
    Good luck
     
  7. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    Double post deleted
     
  8. ClH

    ClH Member

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  9. ClH

    ClH Member

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    Thanks to everyone for all the help. I have tried to drift the dovetail but it is not moving. I have put penetrating oil on it and will try in a few hours. I have removed all the screws. With this specific model there is not a barrel/magazine band at the muzzle. Also shown in the picture is a band that is permanently attached to the barrel that the magazine tube slides through.

    Doing some extensive searching on YouTube I was able to find one video of a Model 94 that is described as a take-down model that does have a screw in magazine tube. But viewing the video I would have to agree that my tube must slide out, as the magazine tube in the video is completely different. I have included the name of the video if anyone is interested in the screw-in magazine tube. "Gunsmithing- How to Fix Screw Holes in a Winchester 1894 Barrel."

    I think the best course of action will be to try and move the dovetail so I can get penetrating oil where the tube connects to the receiver joint, as suggested by
    Kp321.

    My one question, how best to get the dovetail to move? I have tried taping on a block of wood and a brass punch. Neither has moved it.
     
  10. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    OK not style I was thinking of.

    The old 1873s had a pin thru that type mag band that held mag tube in place. Once pin was driven out the mag tube could be slid out.

    Caution that is a twist lock barrel band! It must be rotated 90 degrees to be removed from barrel! Do not drive straight out!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  11. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    If the forearm cap bracket is very tight- Why remove it? Once the mag tube is slid out, the forearm will come off without removing it and you won’t upset that factory fit.
     
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  12. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    I also seem to remember the mag cap screw might be long enough to have a shallow hole drilled into barrel to locate it. So make sure it is removed before trying to pull mag tube out.
    Good luck
     
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  13. ClH

    ClH Member

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    Catpop,

    Thanks for all the help and information that you have provided. I just got done examining the magazine tube and barrel under bright lighting and magnification.

    This is where I am at. I removed the cap from the magazine tube with the help of penetrating oil. The spring was also removed. The magazine tube is empty.

    Looking through the factory holes at the end of the magazine tube where the magazine tube cap attaches, I can see a pin that is flush with the barrel. It does not stick up and wouldn't interfere with sliding out the magazine tube.

    Now looking at the magazine band under bright lighting and magnification, there is no pin or pins to be found. The band is permanently attached to the barrel by welding, soldering or whatever the technology from 1908 was used. The band it is there to stay.

    So, here is where I am at. Do I try and drift the dovetail attachment toward the end of the barrel so I can move the magazine tube a little so I can get some penetrating oil in the receiver end?
    Looking at the fit between the barrel and the magazine tube I have to question if I can move the dovetail attachment. If the dovetail can be moved, will this allow me to move the magazine tube a little forward so I can get some penetrating oil in? The magazine tube is made of some very thin sheet metal and I don't think I should use any tools on it that could cause it to bend.

    I would like to get this magazine tube out to finishing cleaning the rifle. Maintenance on this rifle has not been done in years, maybe decades.

    Again, thanks much for your assistance. I will wait to hear a response. I got about 16 zip lock bags of screws, pins and miscellaneous parts to clean.
     
  14. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    I’ve never encountered one exactly like you’ve got. Most of my gunsmithing was on the 1873s and 1894s.
    As I recall that fore arm bracket is designed to drift sideways, not toward the muzzle.
    And all the mag tube bands that looked like that had a very small cross pin in them.
    With that said, Ive exhausted my limited knowledge in that area.
    You might try a drop or two of Kroil. It is a very good penetrating oil for loosing old rust. And just keep working with the little bit of play you have.
    Good luck
     
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  15. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

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    I have never seen a magazine tube band that is permanently installed on the barrel. Most are twist in as already described. There has to be a small pin, 1/16”, in the band you are missing. It is located in the groove between the dovetail and the ring and goes through a notch in the tube. The pins were installed and the ends were filed and/or peened so they are difficult to see and remove.
     
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  16. ClH

    ClH Member

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    For Catpop and Kp321,

    I have been looking at Winchester disassembly videos on very old models. I have seen the pin in the magazine tube band as you have described on every model.

    As I have described in previous discussions, my rifle "appears" to have the band welded or soldered permanently in position and no pin is visible.

    I would greatly appreciate your expertise and opinion.

    Yesterday I was cleaning the barrel band with a copper cleaning brush in the location that the pin should be found and a piece of solder came out of the band. Here is my thoughts, there is without a doubt a pin in the magazine tube band but it is covered with a bead of solder on both sides. Please look closely at the picture and you can see the bead of solder that would be covering the pin. If I can get the solder out, I will be able to get to the pin to remove the magazine tube.

    I have a solder gun and I would think that the solder used in 1908 is predominantly lead. It shouldn't be much of a problem melting the solder to find the pin to remove the tube.

    Again thank you for your expertise on this rifle.
     
  17. ClH

    ClH Member

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    For all that have been helping, the pin, as I have been instructed has been found. The magazine tube band had a bead of solder on each side that was covering the pin. I had to take a torch and heat up the end of a chisel that would just fit inside the location of the pin. I got it red hot, the solder loosened up and I could pop it out. There it sits, the end of the pin.

    I never would have found this pin had it not been for your knowledge of this firearm.

    Thanks to Catpop and Kp321
     
  18. Kp321

    Kp321 Member

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    Glad to help and glad you got the pin out. Apparently Bubba has always been around!
     
  19. shooter1niner

    shooter1niner Member

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    Perhaps the solder was to retain the pin.
     
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