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1911 + 16" barrel + folding stock = .45acp Rifle

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by 22/22mag, Jun 25, 2008.

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  1. 22/22mag

    22/22mag Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    With a scope mount.
     
  2. Jimmie

    Jimmie Member

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    Wow. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Interesting at least.
     
  3. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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    exotic
     
  4. Logan5

    Logan5 Member

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    Reminds me of the woman in that Frost poem who could make her coffe table rear up and kick like an army mule. As she said;
    "...and when I've done it, what good have I done?"
     
  5. Claude Clay

    Claude Clay Member

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    verrrrry interesting
    does it lock up in the closed position such that it can be fired? and would a 10 stick fit with it closed? is it as accurate as before it morphed?
     
  6. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    No reinforcement on that stock hinge. Better be REALLY careful not to apply too much force when shouldering.
     
  7. Ohio Rifleman

    Ohio Rifleman Member

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    I've seen that thing in catalogues. Are you really getting that much extra velocity out of the .45acp? And is it worth taking a perfectly good pistol and turning it into and awkward, and probably poorly balanced "carbine?" I think not.
     
  8. Still 2 Many Choices!?

    Still 2 Many Choices!? Member

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    Well, if it locks in the folded position, you could use the stock as a forward grip. It is atleast an innovative idea that could lead to an even cooler dedicated to this idea platform. I like it.

    Still 2 Many Choices!?
     
  9. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    I thought putting a shoulder stock on a handgun was illegal (except for the broomhandle mausers with their original (not reproduction) stock)? Does that not apply if you install a 16" or longer barrel first? also, if you still have the normal pistol barrel, couldn't they say that since you have the short barrel, and the butt-stock, you have "constructive possession" of an SBR, or whatever a handgun becomes when you add a shoulder stock, thus meaning you need to get rid of the normal barrel to be 100% safe?

    Not trying to spoil the fun, or imply the OP broke the law, or would knowingly do that, just curious, as I have seen the kits and such, and can never seem to keep all the NFA rules straight, since the make even less sense than "regular" gun laws.
     
  10. 22/22mag

    22/22mag Member

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    Hi all state police said legal in Oregon, the stock extended is strong and I hold the pistol with a 2 handed grip the same as without the stock.Shoots well with the 10 rd mag and stock pressed against my shoulder very steady shooting.Seems more accuracy as a rifle at longer range.The stock + barrel can be removed and back to a normal 1911 in a few minutes.Makes a great back pack rifle or under the seat truck gun .

    The Kimber Poly 14 + 1 on my Mech Tech unit. [​IMG].It only takes about 1 1/2 minute to change the Kimber Poly back to a 1911 pistol .



    For a carry .45 acp I will use the Sig 220 or Springfield bi-tone 1911.Both Kimbers were sitting in safe now fun .45 acp shooters.
     
  11. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    The OPs setup is entirely legal.

    Under the federal laws, you can convert a pistol into a rifle (and back again, WHEEEEE), but can't convert a rifle into a pistol.

    So long as you add your 16" barrel BEFORE you attach the stock, you're fine (and as long as you have a matching 16" barrel for your shoulder stock).

    These kits have been selling for decades.
     
  12. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Okay that gets my vote for ugliest gun of the year.

    But the important thing is how does it shoot?
     
  13. justin 561

    justin 561 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    Thats what I thought, as far as the 16" barrel and stock having to go together, and the barrel technically had to go on first (though they have a pretty hard time proving differently unless the ATF was watching AS you set it up).

    I just wasnt real sure if you had to ditch the short barrel or not, so they couldnt say, "well, you have a butt-stock for a pistol, and a pistol barrel for the same gun, so you could make an illegal gun", Or saying that if you have a second 1911 the stock wuld fit on, but the barrel wouldnt, so you could make a illegal SBR with the stock on the other 1911.

    similar, but slightly different from how owning a non-nfa registered DIAS or lightning link is perfectly legal if you dont own an AR, but if you do, even if you never had them within 100yds of each other, they could still charge you because you could make an illegal MG with it.

    Just wasnt real sure on the details, since the NFA, or at least the ATF interprets and enforces it, is kinda whacky and makes little sense sometimes.Sadly, jus tcause something is for sale openly, all over the place, doesnt mean its legal to use, or even legal to own, in some circumstances.(again, DIAS and lightning links are agood example. They are often for sale on the net, or at gun shows cheap, but if you buy one, and you AR isnt a registered MG, you now have an illegal MG.

    I do now recall reading that the key difference seems to be whether or not you have a LEGAL way to use everythng, vs having 2 perfectly legal things, (legal AR, and legal non-regitered LL/DIAS), but no legal use for the DIAS/LL, since you dont have a registered MG to put it in, but have an AR it could go in, so now you have an unregistered MG.

    Whole NFA just needs to go.No point to it.


    justin 561-not sure if your kidding or what, but as mentioned, putting a shoulder stock on a handgun with a barrel under 16" is illegal. it becomes a short barreled rifle. You need to add a 16" or longer barrel to it FIRST. The only exception I know of is the Mauser C96 (I think the Contenders are similar too, but that there may be some sort of "catch" with those. There was a discussion on here about them a while ago, and an ATF letter that noted the distinction), and even then, it has to be an original stock. You cant buy or make a reproduction one and install it, as that would then be illegal.Dumb, but what NFA related thing isnt? Kinda like a rifle with a foreward grip is fine, and a handgun is fine, but put a foreward grip on a handgun and go to prison.Cause, you know, the grip on a handgun makes it a baby killer, but on a rifle, it makes it shoot rainbows.....
     
  15. Erinyes

    Erinyes Member

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    I believe some of the early BHPs that came with shoulder stocks and the Luger artillery models are also exempt. Don't quote me on that, though.
     
  16. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    I think you may be right about the Artillery Luger's at least, that does sound familiar. Dont know about BHP's. They arent really my thing.

    Also, forgot to mention, back on topice, I always thought the kits like the OP has were interesting. Alsways wondered how comfortable they are, and if there was really much to gain. It's cool to get the OP's 1st hand account on one, as I had never heard a review of them from someone who tried it.I can see the benifit of it as a pack gun, like the OP mentioned.Pretty neat.
     
  17. critter

    critter Member

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    Just because something CAN be done does not mean that it SHOULD be done. (Tongue firmly implanted in cheek.)
     
  18. DrDremel

    DrDremel Member

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    22/22mag, If you would ever like to sell that stock, please contact me. I am looking for one for a 1911a1 pistol registered as a short barreled rifle and I really want a stock like that. I have been unable to find one. If you know where to get one please let me know.

    Drdremel
    drdremel at hotmail dot com
     
  19. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Yes, the 'catch' is that you apply a 16" barrel before you affix the buttstock.

    Don't have a 16" contender barrel but do have a contender buttstock? Johnny Law might find that interesting...
     
  20. ScottsGT

    ScottsGT Member

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    I read somewhere that the BATFE ruling (written letter) on the converting to a rifle and back was only in reference to the Contender Pistols, and any other weapon would now be considered a "rifle only" once converted.
    BIG discussion over this subject over on AR15.com about AR pistols and slapping on a buttstock and long upper for rifle shooting. Seemed some guys didn't want to invest in two different lowers.
     
  21. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    If you bought it as a pistol, you can go back and forth as often as you like.

    Bet ya money there's a ATF letter that says the exact opposite out there somewhere . . .
     
  22. 22/22mag

    22/22mag Member

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    DrDremel
    I found the folding stock on ebay and the 16" barrel from one of the gun parts suppliers been awhile don't recall who.I have seen them pop up in ads sometimes.I could get a 1911 40rd drum mag for fun.Plan on keeping the stock.

    The long barrel 1911 with stock is a great shooter easy to use it as a short range rifle with a red dot or scope and fold away flat for storage.
     
  23. alemonkey

    alemonkey Member

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    I just threw up a little in my mouth.
     
  24. Snapping Twig

    Snapping Twig Member

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    I actually shot one like the one 22/22mag has in his picture.

    Hit the 100 yard gong every time I pulled the trigger.

    Kind of neat with a little delay between shot and sound.
     
  25. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    How is the accuracy of the first one? I like it. I don't care for the scope mount/grip panel though. I'd rather have a wooden stock that easily attaches/detaches to a custom MSH. Gives me an idea for a stock/holster like the Mauser "broomhandle". Registering it as an SBR(could that be done with a pistol frame or would that have to be worked out with a manufacturer like Caspian?) would be really nice.
     
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