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1911: .45 Automatic vs 9x19mm

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Mr. Mosin, May 24, 2020.

  1. js8588

    js8588 Member

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    In 2020 this is the correct answer. It's not even splitting the difference (unless we're talking capacity, I suppose). The 10mm puts twice the energy on target vs either 9mm or 45acp (it even easily outperforms +p loadings of either) and runs like a sewing machine in the 1911 platform.
     
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  2. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Member

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    Does it really matter, the difference between the 45ACP and 9X19mm? Of those whom have replied to this subject, whom of you have actually used one or the other in a antipersonnel application? I have very limited experience in application during my USMC/Viet-Nam days with the 1911A1. As this is written my EDC is a S&W Shield 9X19mm. Its either going to be good enough or it isn't but that's the way its going to be. Situation awareness thus avoidance of stupid people, places, and things is most likely of more importance than if your EDC is a 45ACP or 9X19mm
     
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  3. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    Well said. That said however, Criminal minded folks can and will show up at any time.
     
  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    As we use to say just some food for thought...

    It may be that the 1911 is an old design based on some long out of date Army specifications; it still doesn't explain why everybody and their brother continue to make 1911s (well except for Glock)! If the gun itself was that bad or obsolete it would have been left in the scrap heap 60 or 70 years ago! Yet here we are entering into the 1911's next century of service and the gun is still going strong!

    I can't believe that people (myself included), are buying 1911s out of sheer nostalgia, curiosity, peer pressure, are into collecting antiques, or just don't know any better but something sure is driving people to get them! For myself no handgun grip, with the possible exception of the Browning Hi-Power, feels as good in my hand! Not too extreme of an angle, not too long-not too short, and it gives the gun a great balance and handling dynamic. And then there's that single action trigger; have had some that were a bit stagy and rough around the edges but never had one that would plain not work or couldn't be smoothed up with a little bit of expertise. Speaking of which there aren't many handguns out there (again that pesky Glock comes to mind), which can be built from the stripped frame on up, into a working, functioning pistol. I know because I did it years ago and it turned out amazingly fine!
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  5. TomJ
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    TomJ Contributing Member

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    Well said. As with most products the market, meaning consumers make these decisions. When people stop buying 1911's manufacturers will stop making them.
     
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  6. Climb14er

    Climb14er Member

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    2011 DW 1911 CCO in .45ACP. Also EDC, not at the same time, Glock 19.

    If I had to buy another 1911 CCO or lightweight commander now... I'd buy it again in .45ACP.

    Enjoy what you shoot.
     
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  7. Mr. Mosin

    Mr. Mosin Member

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    I want a 1911 because it's the only full size semi auto handgun I can actually shoot well. You give me a G19 and four mags, stick me in an arena with a starving, cripple drug addict armed with nothing; and tell me to live or die... I'm gonna die, because I can't hit *anything* with a Glock. That, or we both are walking out of there. That addict is gonna have the luckiest day of his life.... I was his would-be executioner.
     
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  8. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    My personal experience with both 9mm and 45ACP has been in the military. When one is restricted to military ball (FMJ) ammo, I have found that the 45 does indeed do better. With modern SD ammo, I have no problem with using 9mm. My Sig P938 9mm sees the most use as far as EDC is concerned. I do carry my 1911s also (9mm and 45). With my arthritic hands and wrists, I find shooting my 9mm 1911 to be more pleasant than shooting my 45. With proper ammo and plenty of practice, both will equally do the job.
     
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  9. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    Mr Mosin,

    A 9mm 1911 is very pleasant to shoot. My RIA with a ramped barrel has been very reliable and accurate. Which ever brand 9mm 1911 you choose, get it with a ramped barrel along with good magazines.
     
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  10. JDR

    JDR Member

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    It’s interesting that LAV is using a Wilson-modified Dan Wesson for his .45 ACP choice. IMHO, I don’t like a railed 1911 unless I wanted to keep a light mounted on it for a HD intended use (and I probably don’t want to do that anyway). And I absolutely agree that a 9mm 1911 is ideal for an experienced shooter working with a novice shooter.
     
  11. a2x4bbl

    a2x4bbl Member

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    I won't get into caliber debates other than all of the above . I don't see the point in a 1911 length ( front to back ) grip for 9mm ( or .40 ) when you have to use spacers ( or something else to take up the space ) , when .38 super , 10mm or 45 acp doesn't need that . So why not take advantage of that with a better , longer round ( more power ) . Then there is the capacity debate , which makes no sense to me . Buy a double stack 1911 and have 45acp and capacity . I have 4 1911's , .38 super, 10mm and 2 45acp . Only 1 is single stack . I will buy more 1911's I'm sure , but , I will not buy another single stack . The . 38 super holds 20 flush mag , the 10mm 16 , the Para 45 holds 14 . As far as The 1911 being an old design . I have 4 1911's , Glocks -2 , Hi-powers-2 , CZ's -3 , Berreta-1 and the Hi-power comes closest to a 1911 in a clean breaking trigger ( after a lot of work ) , but, the Hi-power reset is the longest of any of them . The 1911's reset is insanely short . Glock reset that people rave about ? Not even close , the CZ is shorter . Look at the worlds top shooter's ,99 out of 100 are shooting a 1911 in some variation . There is a reason for that .
     
  12. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    The reason so many top shooters use 1911s, tricked out CZs or other really light triggered short reset pistols is when you are that good shooting on a one way range you want an on off switch not a "trigger". They all want and to win need a trigger that they can control slap The trigger and still have enough accuracy not to drop points. It is an entirely different world for avg shooters like me.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  13. bersaguy

    bersaguy Member

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    Wie könnte jemand eine deutsche Pistolenpatrone in einer amerikanischen Waffe verwenden? Undenkbar! Nein! Nein! Nein!

    Honestly, I'm not personally a fan of 9mm in 1911's not because it's a bad cartridge, or a bad platform. They just aren't made for eachother, and the 45 auto round and the M1911 literally were. 1911's are heavy, and that's a good thing for 45, but not altogether neccessary for 9mm. One of the advantages that 9mm has on 45 is the higher capacity of most platforms that chamber 9mm, and the 1911 doesn't full take advantage of that. Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911...chambered for 45, raining mags like a madman and making big holes in an action shooting competition. Just like I love my CZ75 and its 18 round mags loaded with 9mm. As far as the cartridge debate of 9 vs 45? Yeah, I'm not touching that one. I'm not saying to not get a 9mm 1911, if that scratches your itch, then by all means...its still going to be a good gun. But it's kinda like 9mm revolvers...I don't quite understand the point, but someone does or they wouldn't be selling them.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
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  14. el Godfather

    el Godfather Member

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    1911 is synonymous to 45!

    no I would not trade calibers to get two extra rounds.

    Those of us who are extremely worried about capacity should simply buy high capacity pistols.
    Anyways capacity is overrated when it comes to an average person- who will NEVER see a zombies attack - I can guarantee that with a ONE Dollar bill any day.



    That said for some sporting events you might need to fiddle with calibers while wanting to remain in the 1911 platform.

    Like my dan wesson Havoc.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  15. TheProf

    TheProf Member

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    That's the best analogy I have heard so far ...on this subject!
     
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  16. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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  17. Boarhunter

    Boarhunter Member

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    I really like the 1911 platform as an EDC.
    I really like the 9mm in the 1911 platform as an EDC.
    And one of my favorites for the purpose is an old, first-production Springfield EMP, designed specifically for the 9mm.

    BOARHUNTER
     
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  18. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    I am probably going to buy a 9mm 1911, sooner or later, to be a designated training pistol. The more reading I do, of material written by serious shooters, the more I see that a 9mm 1911 may be more susceptible to finickiness regarding magazines, and recoil spring weights. I noticed that Larry Vickers believes that a 9mm 1911 should have a ramped barrel. These anecdotes/opinions indicate, to me, that 9mm is not a best choice, for a street 1911, unless one is willing to pay for a top-tier weapon. (This means a really good one; not necessarily a “boutique” or customized weapon.)

    From 1997 to 2002, I owned a .45 ACP Kimber, with its specific role being a training weapon, as it threw malfunctions at me with some level frequency, about one every 400 rounds, more or less. It was one of a pair, both of which started as quite problematic, but I was finally able to get one of them to run well enough to be a duty pistol. (I had a third Kimber, a Stainless Gold Match, which only fed from McCormick Power Mags, while my pair of “classic customs” insisted upon being fed only with Metalform 7-round mags.) I earned a doctorate, in tap-rack. So, yes, I could buy a 9mm 1911, and if it turned out to be a drama queen, it could still have a role.

    (I phased-out these Kimbers, in 2002, when I phased-down my 1911 shooting, after I switched to .40 Glocks for police duty, as the then-mandated duty holster made a proper firing grip problematic, interfering with my ability to properly interfere with the 1911 grip safety.)

    From a defensive standpoint, independent of the weapon, itself, I am fine with either 9mm or .45 ACP. The technology in controlled-expansion JHP bullets has progressed quite far, since the Eighties, when I started paying attention to such things.

    My aging hands appreciate a weapon with less muzzle flip and recoil, but, thus far, I can still tolerate reasonable amounts of .45 ACP, if fired from an all-steel, 5” 1911. A 9mm 1911, also all-steel, would enable me to train more, with a gentler round, which would be more “realistic” than using my .22 LR conversion unit. If it were to run with exemplary reliability, I might carry it. I would like a reliable 9mm Commander-length weapon, as it would clear leather with less articulation of my aging shoulder joint.

    If I am without hearing protection, as may occur in a real-world defensive moment, I would rather that my unprotected ears endure .45 ACP than 9mm +P, especially if the environment is indoors, or another type of confined space.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  19. Rexster

    Rexster Member

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    Where does one find objective rings, to do this running-around in an objective manner, in order to obtain objective test results? ;)

    My aging right hand still appreciates fit of the 1911 frame, as sculpted by some makers, and ‘smiths, with the junction of the trigger guard and front strap relieved, for a higher hold on the frame. This, plus the low bore axis, as designed by that Browning guy, make the 1911 as relevant as ever, for me.

    My healthier left hand has more flesh over its bones, and likes modern pistol designs, just fine. I am not a Luddite. :)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  20. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I believe.....
    Springfield 9mm 1911 "Loaded Model"
    30K + rounds only issues due to
    1 A bad mag
    2 bad scounged range brass (case gauge range brass ammo now)

    No way I can blame the pistol for either one of those two.
    (actually finished one match and had a firing pin spring in 3 pieces and didn't know till I got home and cleaned the gun)

    Like my .45 1911s too
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
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  21. DDDWho

    DDDWho Member

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    The 1911 is 45 ACP. They may call like pistols 1911. I call them 1911 like. I have 2 1911s and another that’s like a 1911 only it’s a 9mm something. J Moses designed the gun AND the cartridge in 45 ACP and that’s that.
     
  22. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Yep, my DW Valkyrie in 9mm will run anything. Even fat 147 flat nose that give some of my Glocks issue.

    Only 9mm that I trust more is my Sig 226, though my EDC X9 is quickly catching up. It runs everything and everything as well.
     
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  23. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    I have some Winchester 147Gr HP ammo that I need to try in my RIA 9mm. It has done well with all of the 115Gr and 124Gr ammo I have tried.
     
  24. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I'm a fan of both the 1911 platform and the 45 acp. But I need some clarification. If it ain't .45, it ain't a true 1911? Is the same true for all the AR platform rifles/carbines that aren't chambered in .223/5.56? What about the AR pistols?
    Personally I love the .38 Super, and it does seem like it was invented for the sole purpose of using in 1911 platform.
    I'm not debating calibers. To each their own. I doubt I'd ever carry a 1911 9mm. IF I was going to carry a 9mm, it would be something else.
     
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  25. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I believe, as well, the original Colt Commander was in 9mm. So commander 1911s ain't 1911s either then.
     
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