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1911: .45 Automatic vs 9x19mm

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Mr. Mosin, May 24, 2020.

  1. Robert101

    Robert101 Member

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    Do a history search and you WILL find that JMB did not invent the 1911 in 45 Automatic initially. He was asked to provide a gun that met the governments criteria of a 45 caliber requirement. He converted his invention to handle the 45 Automatic round. The original round was of 38 caliber which is closer to the 9MM. Don't get me wrong, I'm a 1911 lover as well with them in 45 and 10MM variety. I have Glocks too.
     
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  2. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    With modern self defense ammunition, dead is dead no matter what the caliber is. Shot placement matters.

    Now when I was in the Army and we were restricted to ball ammunition (FMJ) then yes the 45 beat the 9mm for stopping power. But as civilians we are not restricted to using ball ammo only.

    A 380 in the pocket is always better than the 45 left at home.
     
  3. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I'm very diligent about letting my Jhp 9mm ammo all know that ''they should never expand a micro moment too soon, or too late'', in which case they're no better than old school 9mm, or even ball ammo. And ''don't forget to hang on to your jacket''.

    I think it's sinking in. But it's hard to tell if my ammo is listening.

    Seriously though. When the ammo expands, and whether or not the jacket stays bonded, is the tiny thin line that separates good modern 9mm from the weak old stuff. More than enough reason right there, to still choose 40 or 45 , if you'd like to.
     
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  4. Trashyshoots

    Trashyshoots Member

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    For bullseye? 45
    For hunting? 6 inch 10mm
    For cheap plinks and bulk shooting? 9mm
    For the history aspect? 45 or 38 super
    For carry? Any of the 4 will do you good.
     
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  5. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    Having once concealed a 6” 10mm on a 1000 mile road trip, my car seat would beg to differ with you about “...any of the 4....”
     
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  6. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan Member

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    Usually need them.
     
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  7. Trashyshoots

    Trashyshoots Member

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    Well dont sit on it;)
     
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  8. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Not at all my experience. Owned 2 9mm 1911s, have shot another half dozen or so extensively (so not a huge sample size, but it is my experience) and none have been any less reliable than my various .45 ACP 1911s.

    The only one that has had issues is my fathers Wilson CQB doesn't like flat wide meplat 147 grain bullets, chamber is too tight. Then again, a number of my Glocks (all my Gen 5s, Gen 4 26) don't like the same bullets either. My 9mm Valkyrie likes them just fine though.
     
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  9. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    As I posted before in the thread, we have both 9mm and 45 acp 1911's
    9mm holds two more bullets and has less muzzle flip; 45 acp shoots bigger bullets.
    More bullets is advantageous, cause don't want to run out.
    Bigger holes advantageous cause potentially stop attacker quicker - note, I used disclaimer potentially.
    The term "caliber war" is stupid, because it is a whiny way of attempting to stifle discussion of pro & con - like I just wrote.
    There is no "caliber war" - imagine if someone new to guns asked "What is a caliber war"? Its a caliber discussion.
    I have both pistols and I cited advantages of both.
    One can debate whether bigger bullets are worth sacrificing two rounds capacity.
    Its a choice, not a "war" (war sounds stupid doesn't it). ;)
     
  10. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    Well said.

    The other advantage that calls to me is it's easier to get more hits, faster, with the 9mm* so in any given timeframe of shooting there's a good potential to get more rounds into the target, or a better chance to actually get hits in a chaotic situation.

    Does that provide an advantage over potentially bigger bullets? Who knows, that's just up to the user and their preferences.

    *Caveat: requires minimal penetration AND expansion for the bullets. Again, up to user preference, I don't go any smaller than 9mm. This is noted to prevent the silly tired, "just use a .22 then! Argument.". It's just as silly as advocating a single shot snub 12 gauge to the bigger is better bullet theory.
     
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  11. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    Negative grasshopper. There is less than 5% difference between the permanent would cavities of the three, 9, 40, 45, when you use MODERN SD ammo. TEMPORARY wound cavities DO NOT stop he fight, permanent wound cavities do.:)
     
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  12. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I'll take the extra 5% every time.
     
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  13. LUCKYDAWG13

    LUCKYDAWG13 Member

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  14. Trashyshoots

    Trashyshoots Member

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  15. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I shot these HST's through 4 layer denim into water filled gallon jugs, 9mm pictured on dimes, 45 on quarters, for reference.
    325850d1505152885t-did-9mm-bullets-advance-more-quartersvsdimes.jpg

    The choice: quarters vs dimes, in 1911 you get two more dimes. :) :p

    ETA: In before someone whines "coin war". ;)
     
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  16. magyars4

    magyars4 Member

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    I have never been in a gunfight so my reply to this thread is based on personal opinion only.
    I have carries a 1911 in one configuration or another for around 35 years.
    I have never felt undergunned.
    I have however practiced a goodly bit and have a couple combat pistol courses under my belt.
    I feel the advantages of a 45 outweigh the 9. Bigger holes vs more holes.
    How many rounds are you going to fire at the badguy?
     
  17. jhb

    jhb Member

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    I'd prefer to buy a gun made for the 9mm. such as the sa emp line. if I wanted a 1911 I'd go .45acp.or .38 super. that's all that belongs in a 1911.

    for other calibers, there are much better platforms for them. others will disagree and that's fine.
     
  18. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    No 10mm? No 9X23 Winchester?
     
  19. JR24

    JR24 Member

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    I do wonder, not as a personal criticism just a more general observation, how many folks who espouse these beliefs actually have experience with the 9mm 1911.

    I ask because I believed precisely this statement until I lucked into a trade I couldn't pass up for a 9mm 1911. One range trip changed my mind.
     
  20. Mosin77

    Mosin77 Member

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    I wouldn’t carry a full size 1911 for CCW in any caliber. I wouldn’t carry one as a badge of rank either. As a combat/duty weapon it would be fine. They can be as reliable as you want them to be. As a range gun they’re great, and not shabby for home defense either.

    I like mine in .45acp, but I am actively looking for a 9mm 1911, purely for pleasant shooting at the range.

    The only context in which pistols routinely get a workout as a primary combat arm is police carry. If the officers trained regularly they’d be effective enough with them. But there’s a reason 1911s aren’t routinely issued. You can get way more capacity in a cheaper, more robust gun with a more manageable recoil and simpler manual of arms. There’s also a reason why 1911s are still extremely popular for recreational use and even self defense, by enthusiast gun owners, 120 years later. They don’t make Lugers, P38s, Beretta 34s, CZ27s or any number of other old gun designs anymore. The 1911 is a quality handgun which works very well. It just isn’t as well suited to organizational use as more modern designs.
     
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  21. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course, it one of them tends to provide fewer hits on critical boddy parts, the total effectiveness is much lower.

    That is a matter of likelihood influenced by the number of shots that connect.

    And one thing that drives that measure is recoil.
     
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  22. Howland937

    Howland937 Member

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    I have very little experience. I own one, a Kimber full size 9mm. About 10 minutes after becoming the owner, I put a .38 Super barrel in it. Wasn't much to it and I still have an unfired 9mm Kimber barrel around here somewhere. If it ever becomes an itch that needs scratched, I'll put the 9mm barrel back in it. Just don't have a good reason to currently.
     
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  23. jhb

    jhb Member

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    not for me. I dont find the 1911 to be the best platform for 10mm. dont own a 9x23, so cant comment on that one. why stop there though......plenty of other rounds we could speak on stuffed into a 1911.:)

    not sure why'd youd try to not call it a personal criticism? just call it what it is, or dont. moving on from that.......

    I have owned and used more than a few 1911s in 9mm and many other calibers in the past. my beliefs come from owning many many firearms and having spent many many years on the range with them. in other words my own personal hands on experiences is how I came to my own conclusions and beliefs. so wonder no more. :)
     
  24. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Member

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    The problem was the muzzle trying to burrow through my jeans and down into the leather seat. Wore a thin patch in the pants and left a stretched out spot in the leather. It was fine otherwise. Not a problem I’ve had with even 5” 1911s, but the 6”? Yep.
     
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  25. Jim Rau

    Jim Rau Member

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    That goes without saying if you have any common sense.;) There are MANY factors to consider when making your choice of a PPD, this is just one of them! :)
     
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