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1911 45acp problem ftf...

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by DoubleMag, Mar 31, 2015.

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  1. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    Problem exists in the shooters hand only. The story...
    A buddy owns a RIA 45acp M1911-A1FS. He has a strong side hand injury. He shoots one round, sometimes 2, and the gun ejects the empty case but doesn't strip another round & go into battery (failure to feed). Similar to, locks back on empty mag. Myself and another experienced shooter confirmed the pistol shoots ok...just not for the owner! I believe his grip is insufficient to actuate the grip safety, after recoil, due to stated injury.

    I've tried a more reinforced weak side hand position, that didn't help yet. We didn't try him firing from weak side only. Is this a common 1911 45 issue and/or is there anything to be done such as, different grip panels...some type of spacer device on outside of grip safety, etc.?

    thanks!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  2. HDCamel

    HDCamel Member

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    Sounds like a limp-wrist short stroke.
    If the injury is permanent then a reduced power recoil spring might fix the issue for him.
     
  3. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    Easy to determine if it's the grip safety. Tape it down and have him shoot it. HDCamel probably has it correct, limp wrist problem.
     
  4. moxie

    moxie Member

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    Yup.

    Best to work on hand strengthening exercises.

    In the meantime work on weak hand grip.
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It should not be possible to limp wrest a full size, steel 1911.

    You can fire them with just a thumb and trigger finger and they will continue to function.

    I would suggest the recoil spring is too strong.

    It may have come with an 18 pound spring.

    Replace it with a #16 pound standard weight spring, or even a 14#.

    http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto Pistols/COLT/1911 GOV'T PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#3

    Also make doubly sure his grip isn't allowing his thumb to rub on the slide.

    rc
     
  6. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    the injury is permanent.
    easiest test is tape the grip safety down. if that does not remedy then simply a reduced spring. Please remember; I suggested the grip safety as a possible. Any other possibles?

    If it is in need of a reduced spring why doesn't that manifest on the 1st round of each volley? simply because of the grip issue then? could that be proved yea or nay by this exercise; having him fire one round, then wait a few minutes which would relax his hand a bit. Would that prove anything?
     
  7. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The grip safety has nothing to do with anything except stop the trigger from being pulled if it isn't depressed.

    There is no possible way it can cause the gun to short stroke as the OP said is happening.

    You are barking up the wrong tree thinking it's a grip safety problem.


    Rc
     
  8. g.willikers

    g.willikers Member

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    Most of the strength of the two handed grip is supposed come from the support hand, not the shooting/strongside hand.
    Most folks try to do it the other way around.
    Have him do some youtube searches for grip technique.
    Like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ
     
  9. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "Problem exists in the shooters hand only." The strong side hand injury is likely causing the "limp wristing". Half a rubber ball for exercising his hand. Or change springs and ammo.
    Like rcmodel says, it's nothing to do with the grip safety.
     
  10. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    ok delete the grip safety issue all together then!! Will suggest singularly, reduced spring. The injury is non recoverable at this point. Joys of taking hits the same time as getting older
     
  11. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Why? If it can't cause the described problem, why not just leave it alone? It's a drop safety...necessary because of the straight line trigger. Not really advisable to deactivate it.

    The gun in question is a 5-inch 1911-pattern pistol. As rcmodel mentioned, it should be pretty near impossible to induce a malfunction with a limp grip unless it's grossly oversprung to start with, or there's another issue with the gun.

    We're assuming that the ammunition is lively enough to cycle the slide. I had a guy bring a pistol to me with short cycle malfunctions, and when I test fired the gun with his ammo, it was so soft I was a little surprised that the bullet even made it to the target.

    Install a 14 pound spring. That's the most likely cure.
     
  12. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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  13. Normandy

    Normandy Member

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    I've witnessed a limp-wrist shooter causing FTF and stove-piping. The 1911 needs practically all of its recoil power to perform all its functions.

    Perhaps your friend should consider shooting .38 Spl revolvers.
     
  14. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Did you watch the video that JTQ put up?
     
  15. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    sorry the typing didn't come over right...I meant, to not look at the grip safety as any issue at all. not deactivate; but leave grip safety alone, don't tape it down etc.

    solution seems to remain a lighter spring. I've already relayed the proposed idea to the owner.
     
  16. Bullseye

    Bullseye Member

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    Have the 1911 owner with the injury practice with his good hand.
     
  17. Zach S

    Zach S Member

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    Sounds overspring to me. If the recoil spring is too heavy, others shooters can mask that problem with a better grip.

    As others have said, and as the video shows, it should be nearly (if not) impossible to limp wrist an all steel 5" 1911.

    Is this really a concern with .45 1911s? I have never had an issue, other than a 1991A1 peeling some hide off...

    My 9mm is a different story...
     
  18. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    FOLLOWUP

    Well we finally got the mag spring etc. ordered & installed. Wilson 18.5# and their shok buffer. Ran the pistol with several types of ammo, all mags, problem is gone-solved.

    f.y.i. serial# check w/ RIA stock recoil spring was 24# WoW!!

    Owner is smiling :)again thanks guys!
     
  19. entropy

    entropy Member

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    +1. Then have the shooter work on excercising the right hand, and or switch to the left hand. He should practice shooting with both hands regardless of partial incapacitation.
     
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