1911 Reliability for Self Defense?

[Fisherman12]

I also take what Larry Vickers says with a big grain of salt. Yes, he has military experience worthy of respect, but when it comes to products, he's a paid spokesman for them, much like Tom Selleck and Henry Winkler with those reverse annuity mortgage scams.

Thanks to all of you who answered my questions. It's appreciated.

 

[Red-5]

I laugh every time I read just how much tinkering and cleaning the 1911 need to keep running.

Guess I must be lucky, as every one of my 1911’s are darn reliable, and my maintenance routine is pretty shabby. I field strip and clean them every 750-1000 rounds. My oldest one, a Springfield Loaded bought in 2003, with probably 20,000 rounds through it has only had spring changes, has never been detailed stripped and cleaned, and runs like a Timex.

I have a two from Fusion, around the timeframe Bob started the company, both have over 15,000 rounds, and again, same maintenance routine as the others, and they haven’t missed a beat. I did have to replace an extractor in one of the Fusions, but other than that, they all run great.

Will my 1911’s have an occasional malfunction, sure they will, but so does my Glock, CZ and Sig. Most are either user error or bad ammo.

I don’t carry often, but when I do, I choose either my Springfield EMP 4 in 9mm.

 

[TomJ]

I have 2 Ruger Commanders, a Stainless 45 and a LIghtweight 45, both of which have far exceeded 2000 rounds. I don't remember either one having a malfunction with the exception of when I tried Mec Gar's 10 round magazines.

 

[harrygunner]

1911's can be very reliable. I like the fact that if the frame is right, any and all other parts can be adjusted or tweaked/replaced/upgraded.

I've taken mine apart, down to the bare frame. Nice to be able to clean any part of the gun.

Take the time to learn how to "tune" the extractor, change springs, lubricate the disconnector, barrel hood, etc.

Kinda fun, at least for me.

 

[Casefull]

If you can't keep a 1911 running you should shoot a plastic. I sure as heck don't need to shoot 2000 rounds to know if a guns any good, couple of hundred will do that.
Make sure the ammo is powerful enough. I never have trouble with my hand loads. Some factory ammo is really anemic.
Ditto recoil spring needs to be strong enough.
Good magazine spring and properly adjusted feed lips.
I have about 12 pistol brands. They all shoot just fine. Most of the time it's the operator not the guns fault.

 

[tommy.duncan]

I replaced my OEM magazines with McCormicks.

I use Wilson mags in my 45 & 10mm 1911s.

 

[Fisherman12]

I sure as heck don't need to shoot 2000 rounds to know if a guns any good, couple of hundred will do that.

I disagree. I had a Springfield Loaded 1911. Took it to the range and fired 300 rounds with no problems. The next two range trips had 1 failure to feed each, and it turned out that the extractor was improperly tuned at the factory. 200 rounds is not enough to verify a pistol's reliability, in my view. Perhaps my reliability standards are just more stringent, but in the case of something I may depend my life on, standards should be stringent. I want to shoot at least 1000 rounds before I trust a pistol, and require 2000 Mean Rounds Between Stoppages.

 

[cw308]

I carry a Colt 3" 1911 in 45ACP with 2000 rounds through it 100% reliable ( Colt New Agent ) For carry and reliability I clean after every firing , the slide most important , every 500 rounds I remove the firing pin and extractor clean out the tunnels using Ballistol , does a nice job . Keep a round count and watch how you cases eject and how easy your slide racks , when cases start to fly maybe time for a recoil spring also remember to clean your magazines , all maintenance keeps your pistol running 100%.

 

[Old Dog]

My oldest one, a Springfield Loaded bought in 2003, with probably 20,000 rounds through it has only had spring changes, has never been detailed stripped and cleaned, and runs like a Timex.

Same experience here with the SA Loaded. Count me in as a fan of SA 1911s, Brazilian origin or not. My old TRP is probably my most accurate, reliable 1911 I've owned, and I've had some great ones (as well as far more expensive custom/semi-custom pistols) ...

 

[nettlle]

It's 1000 rounds before I trust any pistol for self defense. 500 rounds does not cut it with me. If one is to shoot a lot and then carry the same gun a preventative maintenance program needs to be established. That's why I keep a round count.

Failure of a $3.00 recoil spring in a SD situation would be bad.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I love how people put a round count on reliability.

Everyone who carries a gun should be practicing malfs during their training. It can happen to ANY gun.

And no my sole 1911 has not gone 2k rounds without a hiccup but that's not why I dont carry one.

 

[Fisherman12]

Same experience here with the SA Loaded. Count me in as a fan of SA 1911s, Brazilian origin or not. My old TRP is probably my most accurate, reliable 1911 I've owned, and I've had some great ones (as well as far more expensive custom/semi-custom pistols) ...

I carry a Colt 3" 1911 in 45ACP with 2000 rounds through it 100% reliable ( Colt New Agent ) For carry and reliability I clean after every firing , the slide most important , every 500 rounds I remove the firing pin and extractor clean out the tunnels using Ballistol , does a nice job . Keep a round count and watch how you cases eject and how easy your slide racks , when cases start to fly maybe time for a recoil spring also remember to clean your magazines , all maintenance keeps your pistol running 100%.

I must admit I'm envious of those of you with 1911s that've had 2000 failure-free shots. To me having a 1911 that reliable would be the Holy Grail of handguns. I'm frustrated with my experiences with 1911s when I have so many other pistols that run 100% all the time for thousands of rounds. I perform routine maintenance and cleaning, I've checked extractor tensions, had 1911 gunsmiths go over them with a fine-tooth comb. I'm close to giving up on 1911s, but something in me wants to keep trying. Do I just need to keep buying and selling 1911s until I find the one that'll go 2k without a stoppage? (Again, assuming cleaning & maintenance at regular intervals)

 

[Fisherman12]

I love how people put a round count on reliability.

Everyone who carries a gun should be practicing malfs during their training. It can happen to ANY gun.

Requiring a high round count for reliability doesn't mean you don't practice malfunctions during training. Of course we do that. That's a false dichotomy. But there is no getting around that it's better to have a reliable pistol that you don't need to clear malfunctions with when you might need it most. Of course, every gun jams, that's the way machines are. But establishing a round count requirement for reliability is a measurable way to ensure a set standard of reliability. I keep round count logs on all of my firearms, to track reliability and when it's time to perform maintenance. That's important on a tool you stake your life on.

 

[nettlle]

Reliability in things can be addressed in different ways. The tires can be ran until they are bald and addressed by the frequent practicing of tire changes.

Or just buying new tires when the need is there.

 

[Ironicaintit]

the only "1911" I have is a para-ordnance P14, and it's not even a true 1911, being double stacked. The only malfunctions it's had were with ammo that wasnt powerful enough to cycle it properly. I did end up replacing springs,and researched how to tune it, when brass ejection started going wonky.
but I dont carry it.....it's too big! but still, it's not had a failure that was it's fault.

what I have learned, is that even if a firearm is mechanically in tip top shape, with no history of failures... a sub-par cartridge can make it stop.
accumulations of crud from sliding/diving/crawling/rolling through the dirt can do it too.
and so, I think it's pretty important to regularly practice clearance drills.
Do that, keep it oiled and debris free, and worry a lot less.
Failures happen; know how to handle them.

 

[harrygunner]

Here's an explanation of how successful round counts can lead to estimates of a gun's reliability.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-before-you-carry.795922/page-4#post-10163036

But, as "Good Ol' Boy" pointed out. one must always practice failure drills. As you've figured out yourself, any number of successful shoots doesn't mean the next one won't fail.

 

[tarosean]

Pardon the bluntness, but I think anyone who feels the 1911 is completely outdated, and worthless in a Holy Moses in a Rowboat CQB scenario should take a breath and go back to their XBox.

Gotta agree.

How one would bash it for "outdated" when there is 99% chance the gun of their choosing operates on the same exact action. In addition to the fact that these new fangled strikers are even older too.

 

[tarosean]

My thoughts.

Before playing production roulette or plopping down a wad of money on a semi custom.
Take one of your guns and sent it I to a well known 1911 Smith. Make sure they know exactly what you want from them. Your not after bells and whistles only a reliability package.

 

[Old Dog]

I must admit I'm envious of those of you with 1911s that've had 2000 failure-free shots.

Geez, 2000 rounds is a drop in the bucket for me, barely a breaking-in period. Frankly, I'm at a loss as to why you can't find a 1911 that'll go 2K round without a malfunction; there's so many good 1911s out there now. I've even had Kimber 1911s that went 2K rounds without a malfunction ... and almost all of my Springfield Armory and Colt's 1911s -- all "mid-grade" 1911s -- have been reliable as well.

 

[cfullgraf]

This thread is an interesting read.

If I had to shoot a pistol 2000 plus rounds to insure its reliability, I'd be worried about parts wearing out and requiring repair or replacement.

I have a Beretta Model 84 (380 ACP) that is as reliable as a light switch when it comes to ammunition it is fed. But it peens the frame over where the slide hits the frame under recoil. You cannot hardly disassemble the gun after a while. It has in excess of 3000 rounds, maybe close to 4000, on it and the frame has been cleaned up several times. I've retired the gun and bring it out once in a while for fun. I enjoy shooting it. I'm impressed with the design that I also have a Model 81 (32 ACP) and Model 85 (380 ACP) versions.

My first Colt M1911, a Series 70 Government Model, had the collet bushing barrel in it. The gun had nary a failure until the collet failed shortly after 2000 rounds. That would be a heck of a note to shoot the snot out of the gun to "insure" its reliability and then have it suffer an extreme failure.

FYI, as a result of the collet bushing failure, the dust cover on the frame has been cracked. I replaced the centerfire slide with a 22LR kit and still enjoy the pistol. The slide was rebarreled to 38/45 Clerke and installed on a new frame.

I have my idiosyncrasies when it relates to firearms. I do not agree with the OP's position on reliability but if it makes him comfortable, then that is all that counts.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Requiring a high round count for reliability doesn't mean you don't practice malfunctions during training. Of course we do that. That's a false dichotomy. But there is no getting around that it's better to have a reliable pistol that you don't need to clear malfunctions with when you might need it most. Of course, every gun jams, that's the way machines are. But establishing a round count requirement for reliability is a measurable way to ensure a set standard of reliability. I keep round count logs on all of my firearms, to track reliability and when it's time to perform maintenance. That's important on a tool you stake your life on.

But it's not, really.

I started shooting comps this past year and it was a real eye opener in this regard. Most people think of a MF as FTF or stovepipe but there are others, and they're a variety of reasons. Point is they happen, whether a stock Glock or a $3k race gun.

It's one thing if you start having issues with a new to you gun right off the bat, but it's silly to write off a gun that for all intents and purposes works, just because it hasn't meant some random high round count.

 

[Fisherman12]

But it's not, really.

I started shooting comps this past year and it was a real eye opener in this regard. Most people think of a MF as FTF or stovepipe but there are others, and they're a variety of reasons. Point is they happen, whether a stock Glock or a $3k race gun.

It's one thing if you start having issues with a new to you gun right off the bat, but it's silly to write off a gun that for all intents and purposes works just because it hasn't meant some random high round count.

Except it is, and organizations all over the world have mean round count reliability requirements for any firearm they adopt. Random stoppages can happen to any firearm, no matter how reliable, due to variations in ammunition, etc. Shooting at least a thousand rounds is a way to be reasonably safe to assume the gun is in proper condition. But when a pistol will not go at least 1000 rounds without a malfunction, something is wrong. A new gun out of the box is unproven. Granted, most of the time guns like Glocks are good to go right out of the box, but lemons get put out too. Guns with problems (such as my Springfield Loaded with an improperly adjusted extractor) can go hundreds of rounds without a stoppage. Doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the gun.

If a gun has a jam in the first thousand rounds, another thousand flawless rounds must be fired to be reasonably assured that it was a fluke. If it can't make it to that round count, that needs to be addressed.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Do I just need to keep buying and selling 1911s until I find the one that'll go 2k without a stoppage?

Nope. There are plenty of Glocks, H&K's and Sigs that run without hiccups. They aren't ammo or mag sensitive. No need to torture yourself.

I had a 1911 at the range last week that went down on me because of the cold weather and not being cleaned in awhile. I had to field strip it, clean it and oil the slide to get it to run. They take a lot more maintenance, it's just a fact. I really can't imagine having to use one in combat unless the tolerances were extremely loose. The one that choked on me had a very tight slide to frame fit. Not good for carry.

 

[Hookeye]

My Commander has been flawless.
Dunno about other ones.
I trust mine.

I run 230gr ball, or 230gr JHP +P (WW SXT.....ball like profile)
Maybe that helps.

Did yank plastic MS housing out right off the bat. Pachmayr arched.
Pops had a stainless GC...........his plastic MS housing cracked. PLus sights came off, other parts broke.
He dubbed it the "POS"
Had it years, finally had enough and went Sig 1911.
No probs, but he shoots wimp loads at paper........weekly.

 

[Hookeye]

Gun problems happen.
But most times it's ammo or operator.
And the gun gets the blame.

Worked a gun shop w range, busy place too.
Heard all sorts of "my gun jams".
Go out there and run em like a pickle seeder.
Dudes jaws on the floor.

Folks change their grip after a couple shots, bump slide stops/safeties, limp wrist etc.