1911 slam- fire. Yes, this is a thing.

[rskent]

FL-NC, Glad you didn’t poke a hole in yourself or someone else.

If the sear spring is not broken, it sounds like you need to look

at the hammer hooks and the sear nose. At least 18 thousand’s

on the hooks and a nice sharp nose on the sear where it contacts

the hammer hooks. My money is on the spring.






Or you could just freak out and send it to Springfield.

 

[Drail]

Plus, dropping on empty is just so.....unseemly........

 

[MEHavey]

Even with a "light" trigger, this doesn't need to happen.

Hold the gun in the right hand, thumb up on the slide release.
Wrap the left hand around the right, with thumb on hammer under the slide and holding it down.
Release the slide with your right thumb so it goes into battery.
Ease your left thumb off the hammer.
Done.

We ALWAYS did this on my USAF pistol teams.... "back in the day"
(and still do it today)

 

[FL-NC]

ME- I guess that would prevent what happened, but the technique you described isn't compatible with any type of efficient (combat) mag change with ANY handgun, or consistent with any type of initial admin loading procedure I've ever encountered in the military (Infantry/ SOF), competitive shooting (3 gun/IDPA) or as a contractor (PMC/ instructor).

 

[FL-NC]

RSkent- I'm happy no one and nothing got damaged too! A lot to be said in this case for orienting the muzzle in a safe direction. The good news is that I was in the garage and not inside the house, and that it was pointed down and not up- I would have REALLY been pissed if I had damaged the roof or launched it into something important in the wall like wiring or plumbing!

 

[MEHavey]

"... isn't compatible with any type of efficient (combat) mag change
with ANY handgun, or consistent with any type of initial admin
loading procedure I've ever encountered in the military (Infantry/ SOF),
competitive shooting (3 gun/IDPA) or as a contractor (PMC/ instructor)."

Gee,...
So much for 47 years of Bullseye and handful of Leg medals.
<sigh>

.

 

[Fuego]

Sear Spring.

 

[Cannibul]

Not a slam fire. It's hammer follow. Please have the post title edited.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Yikes! That's scary stuff. Glad no one was hurt.

 

[SSN Vet]

Has anyone ever done a trigger job on your 1911 and stoned the sear or filed the hammer hooks?

My vote is inadequate sear engagement to the hammer hooks.

 

[rklessdriver]

I bought a used Colt Gold Cup as a Christmas present for my dad. Got a great deal on it and turned out someone had done a trigger job on... trigger was light and smooth. The first time I pulled the trigger on a live round it let off a perfect 3 shot burst.... Checked it for hammer follow by dropping the slide on an empty chamber and sure enough it followed every time.... explains the great deal.

Took it apart and whoever did the work had cut the hammer hooks a little short for full power hardball. Put a new hammer in it and everything was fine after that.

Dad loved it... in case you were wondering.
Will

 

[tark]

Les told me a long time ago that dropping the slide on an empty chamber was an unnatural act for a 1911. So was chambering a round with the trigger in the forward position. Stop and think for a second, when the gun is being fired the trigger is always being held back as the slide cycles.

Dry firing won't hurt a 1911, at least not one that I ever saw.

 

[jmorris]

Unless it violated a safety rule in the activity I was engaged in, I've always held the trigger back when chambering a round

It does and a very basic one at that.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

 

[9mmepiphany]

It does and a very basic one at that.

My sights (and muzzle) are on the target when I chamber the round after a speed reload

 

[jmorris]

You said nothing about a reload but that's ok.

To quote 1911Tuner

The old advice was to hold the trigger whenever loading the gun. It's bad advice, but there it was just the same.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm sorry, the only time I chamber a round is when loading (yes, I do have a safe backstop at home; we had loading barrels at work) , but I do understand the history and reference

I learned it when I was learning Bullseye Shooting...that was back in the day when we did press checks with our index finger on the recoil spring plunger and our thumb hooked in the trigger guard

 

[jmorris]

I'm sorry, the only time I chamber a round is when loading (yes, I do have a safe backstop at home; we had loading barrels at work)

That is using "target" and "safe direction" as synonyms and to most they are two different things.

That's why there is a "never point the muzzle at anything you are not willing to destroy." rule as well as the "keep your finger off until..." one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Yes, but they really shouldn't be

 

[jmorris]

At that point there would never be a reason to have an unloaded firearm though, right?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Well, that is what they teach at Gunsite.

I'm reminded that the 4 Rules are really meant as guidelines to safe gun handling

 

[jmorris]

Why would you keep a gun intended for protection at your bedside with an empty chamber then?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'd be interested in what 1911Tuner has to say about this.

Here's what I think...it's not a "slam fire". A slamfire would be something caused by a free floating firing pin on a gun in full battery...essentially, the action of the slide, in this case, imparting enough kinetic energy (actually momentum, I believe...) to the firing pin at the moment the slide reaches full battery. The slide is not physically capable of traveling to full battery fast enough to do this.

And it's not caused by the hammer following the slide.

If the hammer were to follow the slide, the hammer wouldn't actually engage the firing pin until the slide was almost completely into full battery. If the hammer is actually following the slide, it would literally ride the slide all the way down until it eventually contacted the firing pin...at that point, it will no longer have enough kinetic energy left to transfer sufficient momentum to the firing pin to engage and cause the primer to ignite...if, in fact, it even hit the primer at all.

What is likely happening is the hammer stays cocked until the moment the slide reaches full battery, and then the sear releases and drops the hammer. Which means something about the sear ain't physically right.

You need to have this looked at.

 

[straightshooterjake]

And it's not caused by the hammer following the slide.

If the hammer were to follow the slide, the hammer wouldn't actually engage the firing pin until the slide was almost completely into full battery. If the hammer is actually following the slide, it would literally ride the slide all the way down until it eventually contacted the firing pin...at that point, it will no longer have enough kinetic energy left to transfer sufficient momentum to the firing pin to engage and cause the primer to ignite...if, in fact, it even hit the primer at all.

What is likely happening is the hammer stays cocked until the moment the slide reaches full battery, and then the sear releases and drops the hammer. Which means something about the sear ain't physically right.
You need to have this looked at.

RetiredUSNChief has written exactly what I was thinking. I have actually seen a 1911 where the disconnector was not working correctly. If you chambered a round with your finger off the trigger, then the gun would cock, and you could fire one round. But with the trigger held back, the sear would not make any contact with the hammer. As a result, the hammer followed the slide down after every shot. This never resulted in the gun doubling. The hammer just came to rest in the down position. Then you could cock it and fire one more shot.

I think for the gun to fire, the sear needs to catch the hammer and then release it.

 

[FL-NC]

So I took the thing to a friend Friday who is more knowledgeable about 1911s and pistolsmithing than I am. He got the hammer to drop a few times releasing the slide too. Then I took apart the bottom end all the way, wiped off the parts, and he inspected them. He broke out the jeweler's loop and showed me where some you tube "gunsmith" had done a "trigger job" on the thing most likely using a dremel tool and/or a set of harbor freight needle files. The tool marks were pretty evident on the sear and hammer hooks. On the positive side, the moron did have the Novak sights installed by someone competent, The end result is I ordered a drop-in kit of pre-fitted replacement parts from Brownells from C&S. As far as the "technical term" for what happened (slam-fire, hammer follow, gremlin hammer, OH S---!, or whatever) slam fire is the term used where I was trained in the military and where I work now as a contractor to describe the malfunction that occurs when the action is closed on a loaded firearm and the firearm discharges as a result of ANY mechanical fault of the firearm (obviously this doesn't apply to firearms that fire from the open bolt like belt fed MG's and blowback SMG's. For this reason on many bases ALL firearms are required to be loaded while the muzzle is pointed at a clearing barrel or sand bag wall.

 

[drband]

Did your friend reassemble the pistol and test it again? Curious minds want to know! Did it exhibit the same issue after assembly?