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200 LSWC Woes - Failure to Fit

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by johnmcl, Oct 2, 2013.

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  1. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    There's a Dillon 550B in my house that's turning out 45 ACP 230GR FMJ like we're going to war. The powder charge, OAL, and brass resizing doesn't drift but at the atomic level. Life is good.

    Fast forward to three days ago. I have this idea to switch to a 200 Lead Semi Wad Cutter (LSWC) for a target load out of my favorite 1911. About 4 grains of BE would be the answer here. This is a nice winter time project.

    I run a few through the Dillon and out comes the Midway 45ACP chamber gauge.

    The trouble now begins. The loaded 200 LSWC rounds do not fit into the chamber gauge. If the don't go into the gauge, they sure as heck aren't going into the gun. The round appears to be fat, leaving the tail end of the round outside the end of the chamber gauge.

    What's going on here? The 230 FMJ are 0.452 and the LSWC are 0.452. The FMJ totes out at 1.26 OAL and the LWSC at 1.24. These are Oregon Trail Laser casts, by the way. Both the 230 and the 200s are crimped to 0.457. I've run the crimper die up to almost being out and then down the the plate with not much effect.

    So what needs to be done to pass the chamber gauge test? Inquiring minds want to know.
     
  2. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I sure hope that is a typo!! :eek:

    .45 ACP lead should be taper-crimped to .472", more or less.

    Your wad-cutters are seated too long and the full diameter driving band is hitting the rifling / chamber gage.

    SWC musty be seated so the front edge of the front band is about a thumbnail thickness out of the case mouth.

    rc
     
  4. Miata Mike

    Miata Mike Member

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    What rcmodel said. Only a sliver above the case mouth.
     
  5. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    Hi Jesse,

    No, but there's a ton of information in that link. Walkalong knows his stuff.

    In that threat, Walkalong is loading his 200 LWSC longer than I. Given that, I still don't see why the 200 LSWC do not go kerplunk in my chamber gauge.
     
  6. Knucklehead2

    Knucklehead2 Member

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    I had a similar problem with Oregon 200swc. Shaved lead pushed up and kept the case mouth from touching. I had to file and scrape the lead from the case mouth. After, I fixed the problem with more bell. I did the same switch from 230grFMJ to Oregon 200swc and did not adjust the bell enough. Just another possibility. I shoot for 1.230 col which works for me in 1911 and XD.
     
  7. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    RC, yes that was a typo. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  8. ReloaderFred

    ReloaderFred Member

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    I would put the case gauge in a drawer and use the barrel to test the rounds. If they fit the chamber of your barrel, then you're good to go.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
     
  9. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    What Reloader said...
     
  10. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

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    What is your actual crimp measurement if it is not .457?
     
  11. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    0.472 is the crimp value.
     
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    What does the round measure just below the "crimp".

    Pic 1

    Pic 2


    And remember, the case wall thickness will vary things a bit. Just make sure you are removing the bell completely.
     
  13. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    What .45ACP 230g FMJ is .452? If your belling is actually for .451, you may need an M die or other plug type PTX to adapt to lead at .452. The force of stuffing those fatter bullets into tight cases may deform the cases.
     
  14. fguffey

    fguffey member

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    I built a 45 ACP 1911, it likes new ammo, it does not like reloads, reloads that look like short snakes with bulges will not work. I measured new ammo and decided my reloads had to look like new ammo. It did not take long to decide the bulged cases were too large in diameter. I started using the RCBS full length sizer die to remove the bulge, I did not full length size the case, I size enough of the case to remove the bulge. Two very disciplined reloaders met me at the range with their reloads, their reloads did not work, I went home and removed the case looking like it swallowed a bullet appearance then returned, the reloads flew through the 1911 like new ammo.

    Then there is the loose bullet in the case because the bullet does not have snap back, recovery, memory or spring back added to the though the bullet after sizing is smaller in diameter? The outside diameter of the case when measured after sizing with the full length sizer die is the same as the diameter of of new ammo.

    There is not much I do not have in the way of bullet sizing, my choice is to continue making reloads that look like new ammo or use bullets that do not swell the case or size the bullet before seating.

    F. Guffey
     
  15. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Chamber check in the gun barrel clean and out of the gun.
    Those gauges do not have rifling or throats or leades and can be misleading.
     
  16. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    I appreciate the help here.

    Here's a photograph of one round with a 200 LSWC, no powder, no primer. It is sized, belled, seated, and crimped on a Dillon 550B.

    The OAL is 1.25in. The distance from the base of the brass to the top of LSWC lip is 0.93 in. The width of the brass is just a tad under 0.470 in. The width a little further down the brass is 0.472.

    The second photograph is the same round in a Midway chamber gauge. Notice the distance from the base of the gauge to the base of the brass. The third photograph is a 230 FMJ created moments after the 200 LSWC round in the same press. Notice the expected, and required, flush fit.

    I'm still at a loss.

    JFM_1397.jpg

    JFM_1399.jpg

    JFM_1400.jpg
     
  17. jr_roosa

    jr_roosa Member

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    I bet they are seating crooked and it bulges the side of the case wall.

    Did you flip the little plug in the dillon seater to the swc side from the round nose side?

    I had that problem on my single stage press and it went away on the dillon.

    Maybe you need a little more bell to get things started straight.

    J.
     
  18. USSR

    USSR Member

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    johnmcl,

    Two things: First, seat your bullet deeper. All my SWC .45 ACP loads have COL's of less than 1.20". Second, I suspect you are not using a separate taper crimp die. Do this and crimp to .470".

    Don
     
  19. johnmcl

    johnmcl Member

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    JR --> Yes, I did flip the seating plug to the SWC side, thank you.

    USSR --> I changed the OAL to 1.20, and the solved part of the problem. The round went into the chamber gauge further, but not all the way. I do have a separate crimp station on my Dillon 550B, and I believe I'm set at 0.470 now.

    So I am better, but not there yet.
     
  20. LeonCarr

    LeonCarr Member

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    Generally when I load 200 Grain SWCs I shoot for an OAL of 1.250-1.255 and a Crimp Diameter of .470-.471.

    The last step is the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Love it or hate it, all of my ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel or the case gauge with no perceptible loss of accuracy.

    Just my .02,
    LeonCarr
     
  21. 41 Mag

    41 Mag Member

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    I can honestly say that I cannot ever remember measuring the diameter of a crimp.

    That said I know exactly what your referring to and it is the crimp actually doing this. Back off ever so slightly and they will fall right in there. Don't ask me why but mine do the same thing almost to the exact same depth in the guage.

    If you have a Lee FCD try running then just in past the crimp and you will instanly feel the ever so slight bulge. Wether it is too much crimp, or lube, or lead rolling up under the lip of the case something simply gives them just enough bulge to fit snug.
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I never used to, I just eyeballed them under magnification. I started measuring some when folks here were asking about measurements.
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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  24. RealGun

    RealGun Member

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    An FCD would make the rounds usable. Just sayin', for those who hate that idea. Of course, one should stop making more like that.
     
  25. steve4102

    steve4102 Member

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    Agreed, Way Over crimped!
     
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