2018 USPSA Mid Atlantic Section Championship
- Thread starter waktasz
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thomas15
Member
I really got to give you credit for hanging in to staff that match it was a scorcher.
I'm not good enough by a long shot to put out the fee for that particular match so I was first registered to shoot a wildcat steel match at Central Jersey which was cancelled due to range repairs then registered to shoot steel challenge at Old Bridge which was cancelled because of the heat. So I decided to stay home in the AC. I think that after the East Coast Steel Challenge Championship math I'm gonna start shooting the monthly USPSA matches at Ontelaunee because it's been a while. This is the main reason why I've started shooting iron sight this year which isn't my thing as my eyesight kind of sucks. But anyway good job it was I'm sure it was hot and dusty.
I'm not good enough by a long shot to put out the fee for that particular match so I was first registered to shoot a wildcat steel match at Central Jersey which was cancelled due to range repairs then registered to shoot steel challenge at Old Bridge which was cancelled because of the heat. So I decided to stay home in the AC. I think that after the East Coast Steel Challenge Championship math I'm gonna start shooting the monthly USPSA matches at Ontelaunee because it's been a while. This is the main reason why I've started shooting iron sight this year which isn't my thing as my eyesight kind of sucks. But anyway good job it was I'm sure it was hot and dusty.
thomas15
Member
I know you are correct but I'm shooting in the Steel League and any steel match I can find plus a few ICORE. I also decided to shoot the PA rimfire challenge championship match and I've yet to shoot a rimfire challenge match or a rimfire rifle. Ontelaunee runs/hosts fantastic matches but there is only so much time/money. I plan on being more visible next year will prolly run into you.
This brings up a question I've had for a good while. Why are the bigger matches so much more expensive? I don't know about the costs involved to the club so maybe there is a perfectly good reason. But...
I know there are usually a few more stages and lunch may be provided but if normal monthly matches are $10-20, why does like a tier II match jump up to over $100. I could see maybe $40 to 60 but the cost of so many I would think about are just too much. I can get a lot of smaller matches, and therefore more shooting, for the same money.
I'm not trying to be an a-hole about it, I'm just curious.
I know there are usually a few more stages and lunch may be provided but if normal monthly matches are $10-20, why does like a tier II match jump up to over $100. I could see maybe $40 to 60 but the cost of so many I would think about are just too much. I can get a lot of smaller matches, and therefore more shooting, for the same money.
I'm not trying to be an a-hole about it, I'm just curious.
Hokie_PhD
Member
I have asked a similar question for years, not just for shooting but for other sports too. I used to play quite a bit of racquetball and its the same way, when I got into martial arts the tournaments also were more expensive the bigger they got,
I know the prizes for racquetball tournaments were better, and with martial arts you’d get a shirt and nicer trophy to place in the top three, but that shouldn’t justify the big jump in cost.
thomas15
Member
Using The East Coast Steel Challenge Championship match as an example. Ontelaunee Rod and Gun Club (a private club in Lehigh County PA) is the facility that hosts the match. It is not run by the club although some club members are very involved in running and organizing the event. The group that runs the match pays the club for use of the facility. Between set up, match day's and teardown, a week or more is needed. There are utilities, insurance, grounds keepers, upkeep, infrastructure and repair to name a few expenses. Try to imagine what it takes in facilities to have 4 or 5 hundred (or more) people show up at an event, you need a lot of support, parking and so forth to accommodate this large of a crowd.
About 3 years ago Ontelaunee constructed 6 new competition only pistol ranges to add to the 4 they already had, this allow them to run large matches without causing a big disruption to normal club activities. The cost and effort to construct the new ranges was considerable. In the case of Ontelaunee the club made the decision to construct the ranges based on the premise that it was an investment that would have a gradual payback because they had been running level 2 & 3 matches for years but had to close down the club for the week which of course put the club out of bounds to the regular membership on a regular basis. They constructed a parking lot that is actually bigger than most club ranges in the area. In a geographical location (Eastern PA) where there are gun clubs everywhere, there are actually few clubs that have the facilities to run big matches.
Local/monthly matches are generally staffed by shooters themselves. Level 2&3 matches have (for example) dedicated ROs. Some of them are, depending on the situation, given travel and room/board compensation and/or discounts on their match entry fees. As an example, I'm local for the East Coast Steel Challenge but will RO five of the seven sessions. I get $25.00 per session. So in effect I will shoot 2 guns for an approx. out of pocket $25.00 total, this particular match draws over 500 shooters from all over the country, many of the top shooters and pro's attend it. I don't need a hotel room but do get food, it's still a LONG weekend and I will take 2 day's off from work. If I wanted to I could apply to staff the National or World Speed Shoot (Steel Challenge) if accepted I would have some of my expenses paid out of match entry fees.
Big matches do get sponsors to donate prizes but many will augment the prize table. Also there will be cash prizes for class winners/placers and some have Lewis Class payouts. A good prize table will attract more shooters. Last Year at the ECSCC, between the shooters prize table and the staff table I came home with about $500.00 worth of stuff and didn't have to pay to shoot the match. But I did put in a lot of time/labor. This is not a comprehensive summary of match costs and expenses but at least a partial explanation of why the big matches have high entry fees. As I mentioned in a post upthread I didn't enter the Mid-Atlantic Sectional because I'm shooting plenty of matches this year, In USPSA I haven't shoot many matches in the past few years. None of us can do everything but I'm shooting in 2018 at least five level 2/3 matches and a ton of local matches. Next year will prolly shoot this sectional.
About 3 years ago Ontelaunee constructed 6 new competition only pistol ranges to add to the 4 they already had, this allow them to run large matches without causing a big disruption to normal club activities. The cost and effort to construct the new ranges was considerable. In the case of Ontelaunee the club made the decision to construct the ranges based on the premise that it was an investment that would have a gradual payback because they had been running level 2 & 3 matches for years but had to close down the club for the week which of course put the club out of bounds to the regular membership on a regular basis. They constructed a parking lot that is actually bigger than most club ranges in the area. In a geographical location (Eastern PA) where there are gun clubs everywhere, there are actually few clubs that have the facilities to run big matches.
Local/monthly matches are generally staffed by shooters themselves. Level 2&3 matches have (for example) dedicated ROs. Some of them are, depending on the situation, given travel and room/board compensation and/or discounts on their match entry fees. As an example, I'm local for the East Coast Steel Challenge but will RO five of the seven sessions. I get $25.00 per session. So in effect I will shoot 2 guns for an approx. out of pocket $25.00 total, this particular match draws over 500 shooters from all over the country, many of the top shooters and pro's attend it. I don't need a hotel room but do get food, it's still a LONG weekend and I will take 2 day's off from work. If I wanted to I could apply to staff the National or World Speed Shoot (Steel Challenge) if accepted I would have some of my expenses paid out of match entry fees.
Big matches do get sponsors to donate prizes but many will augment the prize table. Also there will be cash prizes for class winners/placers and some have Lewis Class payouts. A good prize table will attract more shooters. Last Year at the ECSCC, between the shooters prize table and the staff table I came home with about $500.00 worth of stuff and didn't have to pay to shoot the match. But I did put in a lot of time/labor. This is not a comprehensive summary of match costs and expenses but at least a partial explanation of why the big matches have high entry fees. As I mentioned in a post upthread I didn't enter the Mid-Atlantic Sectional because I'm shooting plenty of matches this year, In USPSA I haven't shoot many matches in the past few years. None of us can do everything but I'm shooting in 2018 at least five level 2/3 matches and a ton of local matches. Next year will prolly shoot this sectional.
Having 65+ staff members put up in a hotel for 3 days is expensive.
I am "local" to that club, if you consider being 75 miles away local, but there's no way I'm driving there and back every day after working that match in 95 degree weather for 3 days in order to be staff. A bunch of other staff came from out of town. Pittsburgh, NJ, Virginia, two guys from North Carolina, etc
I am "local" to that club, if you consider being 75 miles away local, but there's no way I'm driving there and back every day after working that match in 95 degree weather for 3 days in order to be staff. A bunch of other staff came from out of town. Pittsburgh, NJ, Virginia, two guys from North Carolina, etc
Thanks, that does explain some of the added costs of putting on a big shoot. I do understand the need for extra ROs and the added cost to get them, plus probably some extra advertising too.
As for building new ranges for THAT club, that does not carry over to all clubs though IMO. However the added costs for maintaining facilities big enough to host a big shoot are definitely an expense to be considered.
Maybe the entry fees are not as far out of line as I thought, but I still think they are a little high. But I'm cheap, so.....
As for building new ranges for THAT club, that does not carry over to all clubs though IMO. However the added costs for maintaining facilities big enough to host a big shoot are definitely an expense to be considered.
Maybe the entry fees are not as far out of line as I thought, but I still think they are a little high. But I'm cheap, so.....
thomas15
Member
Firearms in general and competitive shooting in particular are really, in the year 2018, not low budget pastimes. For the casual plinker shooting 25 rounds per year in their prized carry gun perhaps. But even a semi-serious 3rd tier competitor such as myself, I have several thousand dollars invested in tackle in my competition range bag, as in about + 5K, plus a bunch of support hardware and other things that cost money.
That doesn't mean to compete you have to take out a second mortgage or live in a gated community. But you will have to open up your wallet at least a little bit, this is why in the reloading forum most but not all who compete cut to the chase with respect to their reloading bench instead of making up a shopping list with a fine point. If you want to compete in matches and see improvement most of us have to make an effort to practice, live and dry fire and when the entire package is considered, time spent reloading with a slow press means time not practicing or painting the family room. This is also why I think steel challenge is a great way to start competitions because it doesn't require a huge amount of money to get started and to be competitive.
But to what I think is a partial intention of the OP, shooting with others who have a deep interest in the shooting sports and take it seriously and are really trying to do their best, has a tendency to make most of us really excited to be involved in such a wonderful sport and to set goals for the future and basically just have a fun time. These are things that most will never experience outside of an organized and well run match. Punching holes in a paper target from a fixed indoor lane with no time considerations gets old soon enough and makes it difficult to motivate for improvement.
That doesn't mean to compete you have to take out a second mortgage or live in a gated community. But you will have to open up your wallet at least a little bit, this is why in the reloading forum most but not all who compete cut to the chase with respect to their reloading bench instead of making up a shopping list with a fine point. If you want to compete in matches and see improvement most of us have to make an effort to practice, live and dry fire and when the entire package is considered, time spent reloading with a slow press means time not practicing or painting the family room. This is also why I think steel challenge is a great way to start competitions because it doesn't require a huge amount of money to get started and to be competitive.
But to what I think is a partial intention of the OP, shooting with others who have a deep interest in the shooting sports and take it seriously and are really trying to do their best, has a tendency to make most of us really excited to be involved in such a wonderful sport and to set goals for the future and basically just have a fun time. These are things that most will never experience outside of an organized and well run match. Punching holes in a paper target from a fixed indoor lane with no time considerations gets old soon enough and makes it difficult to motivate for improvement.
I too have a good bit of money invested in this sport. You both have enlightened me as to the costs of putting on a big shoot and I understand it better now. I will continue to shoot matches and maybe someday will attend a big match. (I have shot a couple of semi-big matches.) It's just that ,for me, I feel I get more bang(s) for the buck shooting several smaller matches than one big one for the same amount of money. Pun intended.
Oh, btw, I do agree with waktasz that for any match, you don't have to be "good enough" to enjoy it.
Oh, btw, I do agree with waktasz that for any match, you don't have to be "good enough" to enjoy it.
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