Quantcast

.22 Caliber penetration

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by igotta40, May 8, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 45_auto

    45_auto Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,168
    Location:
    Southern Louisiana
    You must be a believer in one of the "magic" one stop pistol calibers. Which one do you recommend where you would use a technique other than that you described for the .22?
     
  2. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    3,988
    Location:
    Southeast Texas
    I'm not even going to "hope for the best" with my 9mm; I am going to hope that it only takes a few rounds, but I will be ready to shoot more.....with a .22LR I am going to empty the gun into the BG's chest (unless of course he stops being a BG before I finish unloading the gun).
     
  3. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    8,751
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    Please. Does anyone realize how pernicious it is to promote the meme that a .22 is not a lethal weapon?

    I have tested a Jennings .22 with a two inch barrel, with CCI Stinger, standard 40 gr, and Aguila 60 gr SSS ammunition against 2x4 and all three varieties easily penetrated 2 inches of solid pine..

    Col Rex Applegate, author of Kill or Be Killed, considered any weapon capable of penetrating 1" of skin and flesh a potentially deadly weapon.

    In a block of ballistic gel, a .22 40gr solid bullet will penetrate 12 inches, turning a flip midways and stopping base first. If I were a block of ballistic gel, I would quake at the thought of being shot with a .22
     
  4. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,420
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Perfect if you're Jimmy Carter being assaulted by killer rabbits. :D

    Knives? I am not a trained knife fighter, takes as much training as any combat martial art to perfect and constant training and a young body (I'll be 50 this year and my joints crack and pop a lot). I'll take my NAA mini over a knife ANY day. I've very good with a handgun, knives not so much. I'd kinda prefer my NAA .22 mag Black Widow loaded with Hornady PD to my .22LR, but then, I'd prefer my 9 to that and my .45 Colt to that and my shotgun to that and a 105 to that and a 120 in an Abrams M1 to that and.................
     
  5. Kiln

    Kiln Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,464
    Not even a little. It is only logical though that smaller amounts of lead means you need to put more holes in your target to get the same effect. One shot stops are for people who still think that the .45 will knock somebody down onto the ground and keep them there even from a hit in the shoulder.

    Where 3 rounds of .45 center mass is likely to do the trick it may take several rounds that are less than half the size.
     
  6. mr.trooper

    mr.trooper Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    Midwest
    Even a .22 'CB' will penetrate through 2 milk jugs of water - or length wise through a fox squirrel in my experience.

    I can not recall ever having a primer issue with top shelf rimfire ammo. Anything CCI will be every bit as reliable as bulk centerfire ammo. You can expect to shoot thousands of rounds without any dead primers, which would make a failure to fire statistically inconsequential in any properly functioning firearm.
     
  7. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2005
    Messages:
    26,420
    Location:
    The end of the road between Sodom and Gomorrah Tex
    Properly stored, it takes decades to get any maypops of center fire. I can carry my NAA mini a month and 3 out of five won't fire. Sweaty, hot pockets contaminate the heal mounted bullet's powder/primer compound. So, I carry that gun as a back up, always rides in my weak side pocket, I simply swap out old ammo for new every Sunday. I save the old in an old CCI mini mag box and fire it up at the range. I still get use out of it and no contamination duds in my back up. :D

    Now, I can carry my center fire ammo in a pocket indefinitely without fear of sweat contamination, goes bang EVERY time. I rotate out carry ammo about yearly, not weekly. But, it's also more expensive.
     
  8. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    13,254
    Location:
    Georgia
    A 22, especially with FMJ ammo and when fired from a rifle will give quite a bit of penetration. A lot more than many understand. It still wouldn't be my first choice for SD, but would do a lot better then some give it credit for.
     
  9. Onward Allusion

    Onward Allusion Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,388
    Location:
    IN between
    I used to do exactly what you'd described when I carried NAA Minis. What you say is very true about the 22LR cartridge. The healed bullet lets dirt and moisture migrate into the cartridge over time, especially in humid climates, including one's pocket.
     
  10. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2006
    Messages:
    8,505
    Location:
    London (ex SA)
    My main beef with the .22LR is that it's rimfire. Not as reliable ignition compared to centerfire cartridges.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    55,571
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    No

    Our objective is not to kill, but to stop an attack to keep from being killed or permanently injured. A .22 will kill, but it is a poor performer at quickly stopping an attacker. If you're trying to stay alive you need as large a caliber as you can reliably shoot. If you're a mafia assassin ambushing your victim a .22 will do.

    Think about it this way, if a .22 were adequate as a lifesaver the police would carry them.
     
  12. arthury

    arthury Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Messages:
    201
    Location:
    The Great NW
    YMMV but experts said many times that penetration needs to be, at least, 12" and caliber needs to be wide enough to assure a larger permanent cavity. I believe them because they have spent more money than I doing research and multiple life-times of work in this area of terminal ballistics.

    Human endurance and determination: this factor can trump even the most solid logical reasonings about terminal ballistics and this was seen in the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami. The 2 bad guys: one was shot 6 times and the other 12 times before they become a non-threat. And, the ammo used to hit them with were .38sp and 9mm Luger.

    So, is the .22LR enough? You be the judge.
     
  13. jimbo555

    jimbo555 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,190
    Location:
    Statesboro,Georgia
    The only assurance of an immediate stop is a hit to the cns,brain,spinal chord.Is the 22lr capable of hitting the spinal chord or brain? Yes.
     
  14. KenW.

    KenW. Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,130
    Location:
    Out West
    Around the house a .22 Mag derringer in the pocket is better than the 1911.45 ACP locked in the safe.
     
  15. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,453
    Location:
    Laramie, Wyoming
    I wouldn't use that as a test for anything.

    If one studies statistics on self defense stories, most "bad guys" are running at the presentation/firing of a weapon. It won't make any difference what the caliber is.

    I'd fight anyone with 10 or 11 rounds of 22 in them.
     
  16. Tinker

    Tinker Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    Alabama
    (Regardless of using a .22 for self defence.....)
    Back a couple of years ago, when my brother-in-law and his family got into Glocks he made this "phone book penetration" deal. Dry phone books stacked 6 deep. One inch space in between each. He and the boys took turns with various pistols....9's, .40's and .45's.

    I remember before BIL took his first shots witha Glock 23 that he just knew it was gonna blow a hole through all six. :) It made it back of the third book. Just for giggles, and to satisfiy my own curiousity as to what the .22 single shot I loaded with Aguilla 60grain SSS rounds would do. Those consistantly made it deep into the 4th. book. I kind of knew they'd do well because those 60 grains shoot well out of my little M6 Scout.
     
  17. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2008
    Messages:
    7,271
    Location:
    SouthEastern FL
    This old and tired cliche never goes away, does it? While I still do not promote the "lowly" .22 as the best choice for self-defense, there is a stark difference in the duty of a LEO and that of a person lawfully armed only for self-defense. The lawfully-armed-citizen (LAC) is not expected to run toward the sound of chaos and mayhem, not is he sworn to actually try to get "up close and personal" with those who would word hard to make his wife and kids grieve. The LEO is indeed duty-bound to do all of the above. If he has to fire his weapon, it may well be at greater ranges not typical of the LAC's SD range, and may also be through barrier material (such as a car door or window) not typically present in private SD situations.
    The person who chooses to shoot it out with a LEO usually stays until the end. The person who accosts a LAC (and only does so because he does not know his would-be victim is armed) will almost invariably turn and flee, ceasing to be a further threat, if the LAC is able to produce armed resistance.
    I am a former LEO. I carry greater than a .22, but I do not carry all the hardware as a LAC that I did as a duty cop. I don't know any who do.
    For purposes of this discussion, LACs are not police.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  18. friscolatchi

    friscolatchi Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    New York
    Lets see... 8 to 10 rounds of 22lr in the face? I sure as heck wouldn't want to be stung by those bees. That's all I'd expect from a pocket gun.
     
  19. What Would You Say

    What Would You Say Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    31
    With all the above said.. count me a thumb's up for Rampant Colts first response. It sums it up... and the photo was right on queue as well. It's a can of worms .. that question will do it every time as well, on the forum's that I'm not a newby on.
     
  20. longstandingletdown

    longstandingletdown Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    .22 cb long from a rifle will produce the same result mentioned by OP. A .22 rimfire is a capable defensive weapon, assuming that the proper ammunition is selected.

    As a Jerry's Kid, I have been in the unsavory position of having to really consider using a Walther P22 for defensive usage. Bottom line is, use a fast, heavy bullet, most all will deform in tissue and bone, fire until threat is neutralized (does not necessarily mean dead), and then follow through with proper legal advising.

    Upgrade as soon as is possible, and relegate the .22 to a training/last ditch weapon. Even a .32 acp would be better (and in a full size pistol, recoil is comparable to a P22 with stingers.)

    Good luck, take care.
     
  21. beex215

    beex215 Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Messages:
    44
    its always about shot placement for me. 22lr to your heart isnt a good picture
     
  22. YankeeFlyr

    YankeeFlyr Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    400
    Location:
    Catonsville, MD
    A .22LR round has stopped a lot of men. Just not very reliably.

    ;)
     
  23. Kiln

    Kiln Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    2,464
    Same goes for a large selection of different rounds.
     
  24. Carl Levitian

    Carl Levitian member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Maryland
    No handgun is going to give reliable stopping power, including the cult worship .45. Google the George Temple/Perry Stevens shooing. Temple absorbed .45ACP rounds on top of a .40 fired from the cops gun. Not until Stevens shot him right in the head did it have any effect.

    It all comes down to how well the shooter cows his gun. Shot placement.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice