.22 Hornet for Deer

I grew up on a farm with my grandparents. They made most of their money with the dairy cows that took up about half the acreage, and supplemented it with various crops, mostly corn and okra but occasionally others, grown on the rest and sold to local grocery stores or at the farmers market on the weekends. As a result my grandfather all but hated deer and coyotes, the deer because they ate the crops and the coyotes because they would kill calves and otherwise harass the cows, so he would shoot any of them he saw, though he did actually have depredation permits for the deer.

As far as I can remember every deer and coyote he shot, outside of when we would actually go hunting during deer season when he would mostly just bow hunt, he did so using an old Savage bolt action in 22 K Hornet with iron sights shooting a 45 grain cast bullet over a mild load of Unique. His reloading equipment consisted of a Lee Loader, a piece of 38 Special brass that he had soldered/brazed a handle made out of brazing rod to and filed down to the right volume, a two cavity bullet mold, and small dipper and old cast iron pot to melt the lead (he hand packed the bullet lube into the grooves) and I doubt that he ever chronographed any of those but one of the times I came back home while I was in the Marines, I found a few of those old bullets he had loaded and ran them over my other grandfather's chronograph and they were all right around 2000 fps.

If I had to guess he must have killed around 100 or so deer with it over the years, mostly he took head or neck shots but several were shot in the lungs if they were a bit further away, and I can't remember any of them ever not being recovered. When I got a bit older, around 9 or 10, he would have me do most of the shooting so I used it on around a dozen or so deer before he bought me a Marlin 22 WMR and NEF break action 223 when I was 11 or so and a Remington 700 in 22-250 a could years after that that I used up until he sold the farm (I wanted something with a scope as I didn't have perfect eyesight like him).

Sadly, he must have either sold that rifle or gave it to my mother or uncle, either of whom would have then promptly pawned it for alcohol or drug money, along with a few other guns he had when he was in the earlier stages of dementia but before my grandmother and I took all the guns out of the house when it became apparent that it was becoming dangerous for him to be around them.

As far as it being used for poaching, legally speaking most all of those deer he killed using those depredation permits would have been considered poached as despite him having permits to kill them all, he also would not waste the meat and knowing that there were several families in the area that would likely go hungry otherwise, he would always butcher those deer and take them the meat instead of "properly" disposing of the carcass. So technically it was poaching, but being that he was also the local Chief of Police meant that the Game Wardens either didn't ask any questions they didn't want to know the answer too or simply turned a blind eye to that technicality, or maybe they just respected that he actually took the time each year to request the permits and didn't really care what happened afterward.
 
When j go home to visit my farm today the scenery and the countryside is many, many times prettier than when hardscrabble little farms plus our 300 acres was the norm.

I’ve always wanted to have a grandchild ask me, Grandpa what was a cedar tree.:)

I’m getting close. My Amish renter has convinced me to spare one nice grove of cedars to shelter his cows but the rest of them are in cedar tree heaven.:)

The farms around ours are now owned mostly by second generation Amish who use modern chemicals and chainsaws and hire dozers and put up storybook homes and barns to where the neighborhood looks about like Lancaster County without any row crops. The fence rows are spotless. There’s no brush. The cattle are fat and sleek. And they buy big round bales and fence them off using solar powered electric fences. They do not keep hogs. There are no dairy farms.

They all have a prosperous business, that they use to clean up their farms with.

And while my father and his friends were Christians, the Amish are like the saints,,,:they will not ever break even the smallest law. They do not poach. They bring their horses and buggies to a full stop on gravel roads five miles from nowhere. If one of their barns burn the next week there’s a bigger one put up by the community.

My Amish renter is one of the three local bishops, which approximate the station my father held with the local Christian Church.

I asked him what guns and rifles they allowed.

One .22 rifle, with a wooden stock

One bolt action deer rifle

One shotgun-with at least a 26 inch barrel.

I asked him about pistols, and he said the old timers can have a pistol. His dad has a pistol.

He grinned and said the old folks are afraid of burglars.:)

Sometimes I consider conversion, but I need air conditioning and I’m in love with my vehicles.:)
 
Interesting thread. I've never shot .22 Hornet. I have an older friend that loves the caliber.

One older gentleman told me his grandfather laughed at him for hunting deer with a rifle. His grandfather told him what they did to get venison during the depression. For obvious reasons I am not going to post instructions but the end result was the deer was dispatched with a hammer.

Edited to Add: I do not nor have I ever poached or condoned poaching. However, I know that hungry people will find a way to get food.
 
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Interesting thread. I've never shot .22 Hornet. I have an older friend that loves the caliber.

One older gentleman told me his grandfather laughed at him for hunting deer with a rifle. His grandfather told him what they did to get venison during the depression. For obvious reasons I am not going to post instructions but the end result was the deer was dispatched with a hammer.

Edited to Add: I do not nor have I ever poached or condoned poaching. However, I know that hungry people will find a way to get food.
That you felt you needed to edit your post - before being reproached for not providing the disclaimer - is what I find sad about this thread. In my opinion simply reporting historical actions of others shouldn't require one to procliam either support nor dissapproval of those actions. It simply is what it is, no more need be said. But it increasingly seems around here that "virtue signaling" is a bad thing, unless of course its a chosen virtue that isn't adequately signaled.

Back on topic. I shot my first deer with a 22H. Nice doe (with a permit for those with questions) 40 yds, neck shot (as discueed in another thread), DRT. My dad and grandfather agreed that a 22H wasn't an ideal deer cartridge, but its what they had for a 13 yo. It did what needed to be done, but I never hunted deer with it again. My uncle has it now, a BRNO ZKW-465. I need to get it back.
 
Very detailed account from a chance encounter 44 years ago. Do you keep a journal or is your recollection based on a photograph memory?

Either way, it would be interesting to hear your recollections of what the benevolent author/poacher was writing at the time. Quite the tale!
 
That you felt you needed to edit your post - before being reproached for not providing the disclaimer - is what I find sad about this thread. In my opinion simply reporting historical actions of others shouldn't require one to procliam either support nor dissapproval of those actions. It simply is what it is, no more need be said. But it increasingly seems around here that "virtue signaling" is a bad thing, unless of course its a chosen virtue that isn't adequately signaled.

Back on topic. I shot my first deer with a 22H. Nice doe (with a permit for those with questions) 40 yds, neck shot (as discueed in another thread), DRT. My dad and grandfather agreed that a 22H wasn't an ideal deer cartridge, but its what they had for a 13 yo. It did what needed to be done, but I never hunted deer with it again. My uncle has it now, a BRNO ZKW-465. I need to get it back.
It is what it is. Society has changed. I also remember my father speaking about his father, grandfather, & great uncle going out to seine the creek during the depression because they didn't have anything to eat. He laughed saying that right when those three men went down the bank & into the water three water moccasins came in the water from the other side. The men came back out of the water. I'm pretty sure that they were breaking fish & game laws too. Hungry people don't care. We live in very luxurious times.
 
My step brother dropped his first 4 or 5 deer with 22wmr. From about 50ft most of the dropped under the apple tree they had been snacking on, they didn't know they'd been shot and went back to eating.
He dropped the deer, but they didn't know they had been shot, so they went back to eating??

Does that even make sense?

DM
 
Can't speak to the voracity of it, but the captain of my college rifle team in the 1970s was from Alaska. He said he and many others hunted with a .22 Hornet. I'd never heard of the .22 Hornet and had to look it up, which is why I remember the conversation. I decided back then I preferred the .222 Remington.
 
He dropped the deer, but they didn't know they had been shot, so they went back to eating??

Does that even make sense?

DM
Yeah went back to eating for several seconds after they spooked before laying down or falling over.
What did you think happened? The deer lived happily ever after?
 
Yeah went back to eating for several seconds after they spooked before laying down or falling over.
What did you think happened? The deer lived happily ever after?
It was YOUR story; I was just waiting for you to make it believable!

I do know this; 22 magnums use to be legal here and I've seen quite a few deer shot with them. EVERY one of them fell dead on the spot or ran a bit and then fell dead....EVERY one, and that's with heart/lung shots.

That's firsthand recounting there, not a story.

DM
 
I like everything about .22 Hornet… EXCEPT reloading it!

Little tiny projectiles for old, arthritic fingers to fumble with, little tiny case necks for old squinty eyes to check the power charge, just a little bit too much case lube and you’ve got oil dents, case geometry’s that grow the case length to require trimming every time… and with the current price of reloading component so high especially primers there is not the great finance benefit there used to be.

This is my dream .22 Hornet, but then the little rifle would really be considered the perfect deer poaching tool!
IMG_0054.jpeg

But if I could find a primo Super Grade Pre-64 Winchester M-70 in 22 Hornet…
 
I had a hornet for a little while. I was never brave enough to shoot a deer out past 50 yards with it; any farther and I wasn't confident in a good eye shot. Where I enjoyed it was in a short range stand, in a place that had lots of squirrels. I could head shoot a mess of squirrels and not disturb the deer. Sort of a dual purpose round, and honestly sad I sold it.

Re the "poaching" comments: some of y'all ain't ever been hungry. Not condoning any illegal behavior of course, but it's quite obvious some folks here didn't grow up in the backwoods without anything to your name or in your belly. If you had, you might not be so quick to judge.

Mac

Edit for my poor spelling!
 
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The little Hornet is one of my favorite cartridges.
I’ve taken more than 30 deer with. An additional half dozen with the.218Bee. Most are does taken while culling on plantations.
Shot placement is important! But the little cartridges kills all out of proportion to the size.
Most have been shot with my Ruger M77/22Hornet KBZ, a 24”heavy barrel, Stainless, with a Brown laminated stock. One afternoon on a cull hunt, I dropped 4 does wi four shots shooting prone from a fence line. I was using the Sierra 40gr ProHunter hollow points over 12.5gr of Lil’Gun. It gets right at 3,000fps from my gun.
My current favorite is the .218Bee in my Marlin M1894CL. It wears a Leupold Compact Vari-X II 2x-7x. With either the 40gr Armscor 40gr FNHP, over 13.0gr of Lil’Gun @ 3,100fps or the Sierra 45gr PTSPT “Hornet” over 14.0gr of H4198 @ 2,800 it’s 1.5moa at 100yds. I got three does in rapid succession on opening day of 2017. But longest shot was 40yds.
 

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I maintain that all animals capable of feeling pain, which certainly includes all mammals and birds, deserve the quickest, most humane death possible, regardless of the reason for killing them.
I have to agree with you, and what was considered normal 50-60+ years ago can't possibly stand up under today's scrutiny. We're not far removed from sending dogs and monkeys into orbit or testing aerosols and cosmetics on them though.

I wasn't around when the deer were all but eradicated from south central Ohio, though I was around when some of the farmers who were around then were still alive. By that time, the deer had made a pretty significant comeback. Most of those farmers were decent folks but some weren't. All of them were trying to protect their livelihood and saw deer (and groundhogs, bobcats, etc...) as threats and didn't much care how they met their demise.
TNT or poison would have been just as good.

Sure hope we're well past those days now.
 
I like everything about .22 Hornet… EXCEPT reloading it!
I do not find 22 Hornet more difficult to load than any other cartridge except one needs to slow down a bit. 22 Hornet is a fine old cartridge and needs to be reloaded with respect of its limitations.

Yes, the small bullets are an aggravation but think of loading 17 Remington and 22 Hornet will be as easy as greased lightening.

For years, my Contender Carbine was the only 22 Hornet firearm I had. I found neck sizing the case extended case life.

A few months ago, I obtained a Ruger SRH cambered in 22 Hornet. My neck sized Contender rounds will not chamber in the revolver so I need to adjust my reloading practices to account for different chambers in the revolver.

I love the 22 Hornet for sub 100 yd varmint shots.

I have no issue of folks using 22 Hornet on deer as long as they can get humane kills and, if poaching, are servicing a need for feeding the family.
 
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I had a hornet for a little while. I was never brave enough to shoot a deer out past 50 yards with it; any farther and I wasn't confident in a good eye shot. Where I enjoyed it was in a short range stand, in a place that had lots of squirrels. I could head shoot a mess of squirrels and not disturb the deer. Sort of a dual purpose round, and honestly sad I sold it.

Re the "poaching" comments: some of y'all ain't ever been hungry. Not condoning any illegal behavior of course, but it's quite obvious some folks here didn't grow up in the backwoods without anything to your name or in your belly. If you had, you might not be so quick to judge.

Mac

Edit for my poor spelling!
How dare you kill the king's deer or let the peasants eat cake mentality. We're a fast cry from the USA as it was created.
I agree. I know someone who took a few doe with a 17 caliber while trying to get through paramedic class while laid off from work. Couldn't get unemployment because classes excluded 6-10 pm from potential job availability. Not that there were any jobs in the area. I'm thankful those times haven't come back.
I've never owned a hornet. But my neighbor used his to kill a deer during deer season every year. Shots were inside 50 yards.
 
I always considered the Hornet too be under powered for Deer. But after reading all of the above I see that that assumption could be wrong. But there are much better choices in my opinion.
 
How dare you kill the king's deer or let the peasants eat cake mentality. We're a fast cry from the USA as it was created.
I agree. I know someone who took a few doe with a 17 caliber while trying to get through paramedic class while laid off from work. Couldn't get unemployment because classes excluded 6-10 pm from potential job availability. Not that there were any jobs in the area. I'm thankful those times haven't come back.
I've never owned a hornet. But my neighbor used his to kill a deer during deer season every year. Shots were inside 50 yards.
^ This guy gets it...

Where I live there haven't been any "good" or "bad" times; just hard times all around. I have a lot respect for folks that do what they have to do to feed their family.

Anyhow, back on topic. As I said earlier, the hornet did a good job killing deer at around 50 yards with noggin shots. It would probably do the business farther than that, but I never was brave enough to try it. When I had mine, I didn't reload and relied on factory ammo. If I'd reloaded at the time, I'd probably still have it. Mine was a single shot made from an old 410 shotgun; I bought it from Simpson's for under $300 several years ago, and foolishly traded it off. It was supremely accurate with the 4x32 Bushnell that was on it; shot a lot more squirrels with it than anything and they were all good head shots. If you shot them anywhere else there wasn't anything left to eat.

Mac
 
There is a difference between hunting for subsistence and hunting for sport. As I recall, the 22 Hornet was preferred by natives in the Arctic for subsistence because it was light, did not take much room, did not make much noise, and was adequate for the job. BUT, the shots taken were taken carefully. And they were hunting for food, not trophies.
 
Some time back I talked to a G.W.
at a display of various poaching
things they'd seized during arrests
( such as fish shocking doo-dads
and rigs for spotlighting etc.)
and he said that the most used
poaching firearm was a scoped 22
rifle

Once many years ago while with my best bud we were visiting his brother in deep east Texas and a couple of young guys drove up in a small pick up. In the seat between them muzzle down was a Ruger 10/22 and I asked them what they were hunting. They readily admitted they were driving the roads looking for deer. Its been too long ago. I can't remember if it was even deer season or not. That was how things were done down there by the locals and I'm sure the G.W. knew it went on.

When I was still working as an Insurance Adjuster I was looking at hail claims in Brownwood Tx. The mans house I was inspecting had a large workshop off to the side and had a metal roof on it. On metal roofs you can sometimes see hail dents better from the bottom than from the top. Inside that workshop were at least 30 deer skulls with horns on the walls. He saw me looking at his deer kills and told me everyone of those deer had been killed with a Ruger bolt action rifle in 22 Hornet right there in his front yard. A 22 Hornet is legal here in Texas. I have never owned or shot one but would like to have one.

I have a Mini-14 and a couple of ARs in 223 but also have an H&R Handi Rifle in 223 that I could easily load to 223 velocities, I even have one box of Sierra 40gr bullets on hand. Would I ever hunt with it? No, probably not but I have no doubt at all that a 22 Hornet would work just fine on our small Texas deer. I would place a 22 Hornet and a 357 mag from a rifle in about the same class for killing deer. With an edge to the 357 at 75 yards or less.

In the Selected Works by Finn Aagaard he wrote about using a 22 Hornet to kill African game that weighed 450 pounds with CBC ammo. He said it had better bullets than American Hornet ammo and admitted he did not make a wise choice using it on so large a game. But it worked. I have no problem with someone who would use a 223 on a deer at 100 yards or less if they can shoot and are using good bullets like Barnes Triple Shock or equivalent.
 
One more story I forgot about was that my bud owns 40 acres and one night he heard a shot on the road next to his property. He called the game warden to report someone poaching and the G.Ws reply was, "so what do you want me to do about it"? He found a dead doe in the thick weeds a couple of days later but didn't bother to report it. I guess its one thing to make laws and another thing to enforce them.
 
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