22 lcr defense?

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old fart

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i have a friend who has bad wrists, he has had surgery and can't take recoil even from the 38, he's on a fixed income as well and wants the 22 lcr for low cost shooting and recoil. i do wish he could shoot a larger gun but his hand and wrists won't let him but he has good finger strength, i know any gun is better than no gun so what ammo would be best in the lcr 22? and would any of you carry the 22lr if you couldn't carry anything else? thanks
 
At barrel lengths this short exotic loadings cannot generate enough muzzle velocity to be more effective than standard, 'high-velocity' loadings. You are honestly best served by whatever is most reliable in the specific gun. Even though I have 1,500 stingers in my stash, I'd use a top quality high velocity (CCI Mini-Mag or Federal American Eagle) 40 grain copper-washed LRN loading, assuming excellent ignition reliability in the gun in question. And although the hollowpoint versions (36 and 38 grain, respectively) of these rounds are excellent, I would personally opt for the plated LRN version as I feel it will in most cases react better if a bone is stuck, or penetration of bone is required to reach vitals.

This topic has been beaten to death, and recently. I recommend stopping reading at post 59, where the thread derails.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/self-defense-22rimfires.821231/
 
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thanks, i will let him know. the one thing i worry most about is he loves hiking in the summer, around here coyote's, feral dogs are encountered often. a black bear is rare as hens teeth but possible. thanks again
 
No chance of even something a little more powerful like say a 22 mag? Are both hands/arms affected by this surgery or could he practice offhand shooting?
 
I'd pick something slow and heavy like the Aguila SSS 60 gr, or something fast and light like 32gr Stingers or Aguila 30gr Hypervelocity.

Either way make sure it's a solid tip. .22 hollow points need some velocity to expand and penetrate, and that's not going to happen from a snubbie. Better to take all the penetration you can get, and forget about expansion.

I know he wants low recoil and low cost, but the LCR is offered in .327 mag as well. He could fill the cylinder with .32 S&W or .32 S&W longs and still have something better than a .22. And, it'll have a much better trigger than the .22 LCR will have.
 
No chance of even something a little more powerful like say a 22 mag? Are both hands/arms affected by this surgery or could he practice offhand shooting?
...... You beat me to it.........That's what I was wondering. Also, a 22 mag may be a bit better if he could handle it. I have an old H&R 676 22LR / 22 Mag. convertible with a 4.5" barrel and did some chronographing just out of curiosity. 40 gr. Blazer 22 LR was averaging 976 fps while Remington Premier 22 WMR with the 33 gr. Accutip was averaging 1315 fps. The 22 mag. stuff was running almost 340 fps faster than 22 LR from it. I'm no ballistics Guru so I don't know how much of a difference that would make SD wise. Other than the fact that I wouldn't want to get shot with either one. As far as recoil I didn't feel there was enough of a difference to be meaningful. Although it could be a factor to the OP's friend after that wrist surgery.
 
...... You beat me to it.........That's what I was wondering. Also, a 22 mag may be a bit better if he could handle it. I have an old H&R 676 22LR / 22 Mag. convertible with a 4.5" barrel and did some chronographing just out of curiosity. 40 gr. Blazer 22 LR was averaging 976 fps while Remington Premier 22 WMR with the 33 gr. Accutip was averaging 1315 fps. The 22 mag. stuff was running almost 340 fps faster than 22 LR from it. I'm no ballistics Guru so I don't know how much of a difference that would make SD wise. Other than the fact that I wouldn't want to get shot with either one. As far as recoil I didn't feel there was enough of a difference to be meaningful. Although it could be a factor to the OP's friend after that wrist surgery.
Once you get up to a 4.5" barrel something like a Stinger 22LR has enough time in the barrel to rival those 22mag ballistics. It's really about the barrel length moreso than the cartridge - 2-3" guns aren't going to afford the time for more powder capacity to pay off, whether that capacity is contained in a 22LR or 22WMR case.
 
My wife uses a 22LR LCR. We did some ballistics testing and the CCI Velocitor penetrated deeper than the Stinger. As you might expect, neither expanded.
 
Wanted to add another thought; awhile back we purchased a 22WMR LCR for my wife to upgrade to. She did not like the added flash and louder bang and her accuracy suffered. In addition I'm not sure much is to be gained with the 1.87" barrel when it's 22LR vs 22 WMR.

Would I like her to be carrying something higher in caliber? Sure. But just like Old Fart's friend, everyone is unique and there is no one size fits all solution.
 
...... You beat me to it.........That's what I was wondering. Also, a 22 mag may be a bit better if he could handle it. I have an old H&R 676 22LR / 22 Mag. convertible with a 4.5" barrel and did some chronographing just out of curiosity. 40 gr. Blazer 22 LR was averaging 976 fps while Remington Premier 22 WMR with the 33 gr. Accutip was averaging 1315 fps. The 22 mag. stuff was running almost 340 fps faster than 22 LR from it. I'm no ballistics Guru so I don't know how much of a difference that would make SD wise. Other than the fact that I wouldn't want to get shot with either one. As far as recoil I didn't feel there was enough of a difference to be meaningful. Although it could be a factor to the OP's friend after that wrist surgery.

I put this graph together in Excel a couple years ago with data from "ballistics by the inch" Once you get down to a 2" barrel like whats in a LCR, a .22 mag really doesn't have an advantage other than more noise and a larger flash.

index.php
 
Just got done testing my Walther PPK/s with .22 CCI Solids and Stingers. Both sailed right thru 4 inches of pine from Home depot. The exit of the .22 Stinger shows more destructive damage coming out of the wood. My guess is that it expanded probably to .35 or greater diameter
 
I know he wants low recoil and low cost, but the LCR is offered in .327 mag as well. He could fill the cylinder with .32 S&W or .32 S&W longs and still have something better than a .22. And, it'll have a much better trigger than the .22 LCR will have.

Bassjam covered exactly what I was thinking on this one. I'd rather have a .32 S&W long with wadcutters than a .22. And along with the wider and heavier bullet, you get reliable centerfire primers that can be ignited with a lighter trigger pull. If he can get comfortable with .32 H&R magnum rounds, there is really no comparison to a .22. Of course the 32 magnum will have more recoil than a .22, but it is still a lot less than a 38 special.

Unfortunately, the downside of all of these rounds is cost, and if that is the deciding issue, then a .22 is still much better than nothing. Good luck in choosing a handgun that works well for your friends requirements.
 
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From a perspective of effectiveness I would consider a Charter Arms in .32 S&W Long. Light, decent trigger and more punch than a .22LR from the short barrel. But from a perspective of ammo cost and availability the .22 is a better choice if money is an issue. In either case practice is even more essential with a small-bore, and whatever they can shoot most and best is going to be the better choice.

I'll agree with everyone else- HV solids are the way to go.
 
thanks, i will let him know. the one thing i worry most about is he loves hiking in the summer, around here coyote's, feral dogs are encountered often. a black bear is rare as hens teeth but possible. thanks again
I'd suggest for him to take someone with him he is not particularly fond of. If an aggressive animal is encountered and they both start to run he can let that individual get slightly ahead of him. He should then shoot that individual in the back of the knee and keep running himself.
 
Don't underestimate its lethality. The .22lr is a nasty, NASTY round when fired within close quarters (due to a 2" barrel, I wouldn't hunt game with it...but I don't hunt with my .38 or my .357 snubby, either). The LCR is a superior snub nose. Your friend may carry it with full confidence that any any criminal will wish that he/she hadn't crossed that line drawn in the sand...if they live.
My expertise?
15 years as an RN in an ER trauma unit working nights.
 
old fart wrote:
...would any of you carry the 22lr if you couldn't carry anything else?

At one time in my life, I "carried" a 25 ACP (even less energy at the muzzle than 22LR) when I could have carried something else and it always proved adequate to my needs, so if your friend has problems with his hands, there's no reason to not carry a 22 if that's what he is comfortable shooting.

There's much to commend "more powerful" rounds, but the reality is if that more powerful round hurts to the point where your friend reduces his training and so is less proficient with the larger caliber and is hesitant to fire it, then it's value is dubious. In my opinion, it's better to be proficient with a 22LR pistol that you won't resitate to shoot and are practiced enough to actually hit the target than you are to be unprepared with a 32 or 38 and reluctant to pull the trigger.

After all, a 22LR round that hits the target is far more effective than a 38 round that misses.

.
 
I have a North American Arms Pug. Well it actually was a Mini Master (4" bbl.) that I converted to a Pug. It has a 1" barrel and I have both the .22 LR cylinder and the .22 Mag cylinder. I have the Black Widow Grip on it which is a lot easier to hold onto and the gun is pretty easy to hit with out to 10 yards even with the 1" barrel. The gun weighs 10 oz loaded and it rides in a little Sticky Holster in my pocket and you never know it's there.

The NAA Pug might be an option for him or a 2" barreled Black Widow.

.22 Mag is going to hurt more than a .22LR if you get shot by it and in the cases described above it could prove to be all you really need to get by in circumstances that are pretty improbable in the first place.

The "Point" would be to have a gun, as opposed to one in the car or safe. This one is much easier to carry than anything else available, thus you would be more likely to actually have it with you, if under the most unlikely of circumstances you might need it.

Randy
 

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Don't underestimate its lethality.

However, any number of bad guys who later died from their 22 LR wounds did considerable damage before succumbing.

Another concern with the 22 LR is that the ammo is not always consistent in the distribution of its primer compound, resulting to mis-fires. Yes you can pull the trigger again on a revolver but with the 22 LR time is of the essence.

Dave
 
It's certainly not optimal, but we 'gun guys' often get too caught up in caliber/action/whatever wars. Look at it this way:

If a .44 Magnum is '100' on a scale of 0 to 100, and 'no gun at all' is a '0', then an eight shot revolver is about an 80. Far closer to 'optimal' than it is to 'unarmed', IMHO.
 
I have done no penetration tests and I have no law enforcement or medical background. I have shot a fair amount of critters including hogs, dogs and frogs with various 22's. They all died or ran off. I have had a few social discussions involving one 22 revolver and the person with the revolver won the argument. Eight long rifles is easily the equivalent of a load of buckshot.
 
Bassjam pretty much made the point that I was going to make regarding .22lr and .22 magnum. Here are the links for Ballistics by the inch for both rounds.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22.html
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

Old Fart, if your friend can only handle .22lr then I would recommend he use it and get proficient with it. The recommendations that Ray and Jimbo made would be my recommendations as well.
 
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