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.22 Long vs .22 LR

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Chester32141, Mar 15, 2008.

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  1. Chester32141

    Chester32141 Member

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    I have a single shot rifle from around 1900 that says .22 short and long on the barrel ... I'm wondering if I can shoot .22 Long Rifles in it ... I've been shooting Shorts but LR are so much cheaper ... the steel of the barrel is about 3/8 in thick so I'm thinking it will handle the pressure ... what do y'all think ... :)

    Chester

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Shawnee

    Shawnee member

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    Perhaps if you determined the model and the maker and then emailed to the maker with the description they could tell you for sure if it is safe or not.

    :scrutiny:
     
  3. Jubjub

    Jubjub Member

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    The barrel wouldn't be a worry, but some of those old .22 actions were pretty flimsy designs and made from low quality steel. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable shooting high velocity shorts in some.

    Another issue would be the rifling. If it's chambered for Longs, the chamber throat might not be long enough for a LR bullet. Also, the rifling twist for shorts and longs is usually 1 in 20" to 24" while long rifle is 1 in 16", so bullets might not stabilize.
     
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    As Jubjub says, the twist in a .22 Short or Long barrel is 20 or 24 inches for the 29 grain bullets they are loaded with. That will not stabilize the 40 gr bullet of a long rifle. There have been a lot of nice old short shooters ruined by rechambering for long rifle. They won't shoot the long rifle and the chamber is now so long as to hurt performance with shorts.
     
  5. moewadle

    moewadle Member

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    I am no expert

    but would simply shoot shorts in it. Even if such an old rifle was chambered to also shoot LRs I would still just shoot shorts in the thing for safety and preservation purposes.
     
  6. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    just get longs, i would not shoot lr's through it. Believe it or not, the shorts are generally hotter, and faster , than longs. They are just called longs, to fill in the space as it would in a long rifle type chamber. Even so, shorts, generally fire out of a bbl between 700 and 850 fps. Lr's make a big jump in fps and pressure over shorts, so I would not do it myself.
     
  7. Chester32141

    Chester32141 Member

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    It may just be me but I can't remember seeing a box of Longs in years ! Any idea where I might find them in bulk online ? Any idea where the best price for bulk Shorts is online ? I've been shooting some I bought years ago ... I appreciate the help ... :)

    Chester

    [​IMG]
     
  8. eliphalet

    eliphalet Member

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    22LR case is longer than a long so is over all length, safety might be a issue.
    If it was me, I would go over to rimfire central and ask around. Some of the most knowledgeable guys on the net are there when it comes to 22's.
    http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php?
     
  9. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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  10. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Case length of the .22 Long and .22 LR are exactly the same at .595".

    The .22 Short case is .423"

    CCI Stingers and some of the other "Hyper-Velocity" ammo use a longer case (702") with a lighter bullet.

    Short & Long are generally loaded with 29 grain bullets.

    Long Rifle with 36 grain HP, or 40 grain solids.

    But I concure that the rifling twist probably will not stabilize a LR bullet.

    I would also be concerned about the additional bolt-thrust generated by the heavier 40 grain LR bullet at high velocity.

    I think sticking with .22 Shorts is your best & safest bet!

    rcmodel
     
  11. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    CCi carries long rounds all day, just get a ton of those. they are usually about 6 bucks per 100 round box.
     
  12. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    oh yeah, same cost as the shorts...
     
  13. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Member

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    A point to consider is that high velocity 22 Longs were not available when that rifle was made. I'd stick with standard velocity. For me, I'd just park the rifle and shoot LR's in another gun.
     
  14. 351 WINCHESTER

    351 WINCHESTER Member

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    Don't forget the pressure of a .22lr hv is pushing 24,000 psi. That's more than a +p.38 or a +p .45acp.
     
  15. Chester32141

    Chester32141 Member

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    Here's a photo of the 'old girl' ... I believe it was called a Remington Boy's Rifle ... Not sure why it looks so dry, I keep it coated w/ CLP ... Thanks for the Help y'all ... :)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    No problem with a #4 Remington Rolling Block being strong enough for .22 LR.

    But I imagine the rifling twist is still wrong.

    If you really want to shoot Long Rifle in it, send it to Redmans and have it relined with a .22 LR liner.

    http://redmansrifling.com/relining.htm

    Heck, it could even become a .22 Magnum or .17 Hummer if you wanted it to!

    It's plenty strong enough!

    rcmodel
     
  17. Chester32141

    Chester32141 Member

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    Thanks for the advice and the website ... I'll give it some consideration ... :)
     
  18. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    WOW@@@!!!! a kick !@#s rolling block, why didn't you say!!! maybe a bad twist rate, but can certainly handle lr's...
     
  19. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    [​IMG]

    For anyone needing to see the differences.
     
  20. rr2241tx

    rr2241tx Member

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    Just to comment on the photo: .22WMR is also somewhat larger diameter as it was "magnumed" from .22WRF while the .22Short was the parent of .22Long and .22Long Rifle.
     
  21. boerschi

    boerschi Member

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    I am probably too late but just picked up a No. 4, marked short and long. Why Rem so marked is a good question, it is strong enough and mine dirves tacks with LRs.
     
  22. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    My son-in-law inherited an old rifle for .22 long and after
    cleaning it up, I shot it with .22 CCI CB Long cartridges.
    I did not dare shoot it with modern high vel shorts or longs.
    It surprised me by shooting minute-of-rabbit to at least
    25 yards.

    As I recall, the first .22 rimfire cartridge was introduced with the
    Smith & Wesson revolver in the 1850s, firing a 29 or 30 grain
    bullet backed by 3 grains black powder.

    Then rifle maker Frank Wesson introduced a longer case to hold
    5 grains black powder behind the same 29 grain bullet in the early
    1870s. The Smith&Wesson cartridge became known as the .22 Short
    and the Frank Wesson cartridge became known as the .22 Long.

    Then someone came up with an even longer case (about the
    length of the current CCI Stinger) with a 40 grain bullet and
    called it the .22 Extra Long.

    Then in the early 1890s Stevens mated the 40 grain bullet
    to the standard .22 Long case and called it .22 Long Rifle.

    When I was a kid in the 1950s, a .22 rifle had to be marked
    .22 S, L & LR or it wasn't worth having; shorts were cheaper
    than longs which were cheaper than longrifles. Shorts were
    used for short range or tin can plinking, Longs for medium
    shots and longrifle for shots over fifty yards. The rifling
    optimized for long rifle gave reasonable accuracy with short
    and long, but rifling optimized for short or long is very
    mediocre with long rifle.

    By the 1960s at least, .22 Short High Velocity Hollowpoint
    was actually hotter than most .22 Long loadings.

    By the 1970s and 1980s, longrifle ammo was cheapest,
    and shorts and longs were kept in limited production only
    for guns specifically chambered for shorts or longs, making
    longrifle the do-everything from tincan plinking to hunting
    and target shooting and marginalising Short and Long as
    specialty rounds.

    Today most commercial .22 rifles are Long Rifle Only.
     
  23. boerschi

    boerschi Member

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    .22long v. .22LR

    Right, my research shows that the .22LR was introduced around 1887. My No. 4 Rolling Block is also a lever take down model and research tells me that it was therefore produced sometime between 1900 and 1910.
    So, again, the question, why would Remington not provide for chambering a LR round.
    Maybe this rifle does have the slower twist rate for shorts and longs, but it shoots the long rifles very well.
    The Remington rolling block action is one of the strongest ever, and the slower twist rate will certainly not cause any damage, however, I will have to check that the bullet when chambered is not engaging the rifling as that would increase pressure.
     
  24. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    One of the questions might well be =who= introduced .22lr? If it wasn't Remington, they likely didn't see any point in having their rifle chamber a competitors ammo (if they were not also producing it themselves).

    If the rifle says .22 short and .22 long, then .22lr will likely =not= chamber correctly and you will not be able to use it.

    Keep that one as a museum piece, or limit yourself to 22 shorts would be my advice (more the former than the latter).
     
  25. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    I'd go ahead and try some lr's in it and see if they group OK. If they don't you can always go back to the longs and you're not out anything.

    Pressure shouldn't be an issue. People have made .22lr zipguns out of car antennas that apparently have held together.
     
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