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.22 LR Ammo test, which is better?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BigDog1955, May 16, 2018.

  1. BigDog1955

    BigDog1955 Member

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    The mail man showed up today with some new ammo for my CZ 452 testing. I have been reading for about two months on what type of ammo to use and decided, as everyone said, to test the stuff in my own rifle. Each rifle is different, they say!!;)
    I think I will try two rounds of five on each of the types. Then take a good look and continue on the better groups. I will sight in with the SK Standard to test with at 50 yards. Now I need a day that I know the wind will not interrupt the test.. that could be a while in SD!!
    This is what I'm testing:
    SK Standard
    Sk Pistol match
    SK Rifle match
    Wolf Match Extra
    Wolf Match Target
    Aguila Super Extra
    Geco Match
    CCI Green Tag
    Winchester M 22
    Remington Thunderbolt
    Winchester Super X 36 gr 1280 fps
    CCI Blazer
    413894333.jpg
    While I was digging around in the basement Ammo boxes I found these old 22LR shells, the one Coast to Coast was marked .89 cents per 100. :D
    The CCI was newer.
    413894334.jpg

    On the above 12 types, which one do U think will group the best??
    I Hope it is a Cheep one :rolleyes:
     
  2. Odd Job

    Odd Job Moderator Staff Member

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    SK Rifle Match best, Remington Thunderbolt worst.
    That's my best guess.
     
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  3. Legionnaire
    • Contributing Member

    Legionnaire Member

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    You may need more than 10 shots ("two rounds of five each") to get an accurate measure. As rimfire ammo is lubricated (you can generally feel the hard wax on the bullets), your bore gets coated. This is NOT a problem. In fact, a barrel "cured" with lube often shoots more consistently than a perfectly clean bore. But to get a fair test of rimfire ammo, you need to scrub the old lube out of the barrel to get down to bare metal, then shoot a sufficient number of rounds to "cure" the bore with the ammo you are going to test ... THEN fire your test groups ... then do the whole thing over again with the next brand/type of ammo.

    Oh, and I'm always surprised how well CCI Green Tag can shoot. I'll bet if not the best, it will be close to it. Agree with Odd Job on the Remington Thunderbolt; good plinking ammo, but not know for consistency.
     
  4. BigDog1955

    BigDog1955 Member

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    Legionnaire U are correct but, I should be able to get down to the top 5 and then go from there. Hoping to find a under 9 cent load that will group with out flyers. I have been thru 1500 rounds of all types and just cleaned the rifle, Going to sight in with SK Standard and go for it :) I have been shooting CCI Blazer and always get a flyer and the groups never stay inside 1/2" @ 50 yds So I'm looking for a different type of ammo. Hope this finds one that doesn't brake the bank. I just shoot paper for the fun of it, no game hunting. I got the yo dave kit installed on my CZ 452, the trigger pulls around 1.3 and no creep any more. Going to be fun :)
     
  5. Legionnaire
    • Contributing Member

    Legionnaire Member

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    Looking forward to hearing the results. I have the trigger kit in my 452 as well, but I think I selected the spring that gets me to 2#. My preferred ammo at the moment is Eley Sport, unfortunately no longer made. I'm still shooting through the 5,000 round case I bought a few years ago. Good luck!
     
  6. plinker4life

    plinker4life Member

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    For future reference Wolf MT and SK standard are the exact same thing. And the Wolf ME and Sk rifle match are also exactly the same....... I have not came across any ammo that shoots better than SK Standard for the same price or less. Eley target “yellow box” is close but more expensive. I never have came across green tag but CCI standard is great budget ammo when you find it for less that $3.50 a box.

    I know some die hard rimfire shooters and they do 10 fouling shots after a barrel clean or ammo brand change before shooting a group.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  7. ford8nr

    ford8nr Member

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    My Kimber 82G takes 10-15 rds to settle in after a full cleaning. The Wolf or SK should shoot well with no fliers.
    Thunderbolts and Winchesters not so much.
    I just worked an all day Scout event. They were shooting Winchester, every once in a while you could hear a light round. Call it low, look and sure enough it was. Wrecked some good groups.
     
  8. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    BigDog1955

    I get great results accuracy wise with Wolf Match Target, Eley Tenex, CCI Standard Velocity, and CCI Mini-Mags. Decent results also with Federal Gold Medal, Eley Club, and CCI Green Tag but just so-so accuracy with Federal AutoMatch and Winchester T22. Nothing good to say about any Remington .22LR ammo.
     
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  9. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Contributing Member

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    The only thing my mailman delvers here is bills and junk mail. Actually I did not think the mailman as in the US Postal Service could deliver ammunition? :) Mine shows up UPS or FEDEX.

    I will be interested to see what you get for results as I have a CZ LH 452 and have been wanting to see how it fares with different ammunition. I just have other little science experiments in front of that one.

    Ron
     
  10. plinker4life

    plinker4life Member

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    What he said.:thumbup:
     
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  11. Demi-human

    Demi-human Member

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    I find the Aguila Rifle and Pistol Match to be good values for a "better than bulk, but I won't feel guilty and spend even more money on my children". My local Meijer has Federal Gold Medal Match, but it is priced as though it were made of gold...
    I, too, like a box of green tag every now and then.;) I'll have to try some S&K, I hear good things. Of that group I would put my money there or the Green Tag, were I a betting man...
     
  12. viking499

    viking499 Member

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    Throw some CCI SV in the mix. I have one rifle that shoots it as good as just about anything. It is my affordable, go to accuracy ammo.

    As said before, some if the Wolf and SK is the same stuff. They should shoot good in the CZ. Mine will shoot thise better than the Eley.
     
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  13. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I have been competing in Smallbore Prone competition for about a decade now, and that sport is highly dependent on accurate ammunition. I have had my rifles tested at Lapua and at Eley for best ammunition. These ammunition manufacturer's will test different lots of the same brand. Lapua will test different lots of Center-X and Midas plus, Eley will only test different lots of Red Box. Each lot shoots a little different. Each test facility shoots 40 round groups and determines their statistics from that. I would have to look at the number of lots each tried, but it was around ten, maybe less, before converging on a "best lot". Lapua has a 100 meter range, Eley has a 50 meter. It was interesting to see that ammunition that shot best at 50 meters was not necessarily the best at 100 meters, and visa versa. The shooter on my left, at the last Nationals, placed second in the Nation, and I got to ask him about ammunition testing. His rifle had been lot tested around 60 times. He had conducted a whole bunch of ammunition testing.

    So, if you are looking for best accuracy, it will take more testing than what it appears you have. However, shoot what you have and decide if one is better than the others. I have gone through cases of SK rifle match, for club matches, and some cases shoot better than others. Same for Wolf. Wolf ammunition is made by SK. You are obviously going to get a different lot from your SK ammunition.

    You need to shoot larger groups than the Gunwriter "Gold standard" of three shot groups. Three shot groups are not large enough to give any indication of precision, which is why Gunwriters shoot them. Five shot groups are not much better. You need to get up to around 30 shot group sizes before you can say that one ammunition type is better or worse than another.

    This is a statistical aberration, the shot count is not high enough to really prove anything. But that won't prevent me from claiming "I do this all the time"

    l0us9lo.jpg

    How is this for a factory, ten shot target, at 50 meters?

    O9FFlPU.jpg

    I am of the opinion, that since these are actually match grade ammunition, that one of them will give the best results:

    SK Standard
    Sk Pistol match
    SK Rifle match
    Wolf Match Extra
    Wolf Match Target

    This stuff,

    Aguila Super Extra
    Geco Match
    CCI Green Tag
    Winchester M 22
    Remington Thunderbolt
    Winchester Super X 36 gr 1280 fps
    CCI Blazer

    I have fired most of them, at one time or another in a match rifle, and was not impressed with my group sizes. Green tag is over priced for what you pay for. My Aquila match was as bad as any bargin brand of 22 lr. I have not tried Geco.

    Every competitor I have talked with about this, has had dropped shots with the lower priced ammunition. This is an example:

    mtIWqTZ.jpg

    Bud was shooting F Class 22lr with the Tac 22, he had a sighting round fall 12 inches at 100 yards. He was extremely frustrated and changed over to Eley Black box and started shooting cleans!

    atshzXl.jpg

    agntjO6.jpg
     
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  14. z7

    z7 Member

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    Has anyone tried Prime 22lr ammo?

    It is pricey, but for Match ammo or purely target use it’s not bad, I would not turn my 6yr old loose with it, a few months ago she went through 600rds in a day, my thumb was sore from loading the mag (bench rested, when me 6” away at close targets at the bottom of a 30’ berm)
     
  15. BigDog1955

    BigDog1955 Member

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    Wow Slamfire, Thanks so much, What's U think if I shoot a 10 round mag and then shoot the two 5 rounds or three targets? then switch to another type?? Then take the top 5 and start some 20 or 30 round tests?? I do want to get a good test so I can give the bad ammo to my daughter for her M&P 22. Or should I do something different? Let me know? Remember I'm a retired paper puncher that shots in the National Forest because we don't have a range for long rifles unless I drive 120 miles :)
     
  16. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    If it were me, I’d shoot 20 minimum from a clean bore then groups the same count as your magazine. While 5-10 rounds may not be a large enough group for statistics, you won’t be shifting off your positioning or pausing to load rounds. I would also clean between types.

    My 452 likes Super Extra Subsonic for cheap ammo, and that’s what it is, but I hunt so my primary concern is headshots on squirrels. It also liked SK and Lapua on paper but for my needs I never fired too much of either.
     
  17. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I have tried the three SK varieties and the two Wolf in CZ rifles at 50 yard benchrest....They each produce some pretty good groups. They each also seem to have a flyer or two in the box that can ruin a good target's score....My CZ's usually shoot more consistent groups with Lapaua Center X, which is usually a few bucks more a box.
     
  18. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

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    I am going to guess the SK RM or your other lot number, the Wolf ME - haha - will have the smallest groups. Shooting small groups isn't exactly a mystery. Everybody has their go-to brand, but 22LR is "consistently inconsistent." There are lot numbers of even very expensive ammo that won't shoot well in a given rifle. However, the more expensive ammo is usually more consistent than inexpensive ammo and that is what is required for small groups. The wildcard is - even inexpensive ammo may have strings of shots that are incredibly consistent, and that is usually fool's gold. That is exactly what posted internet groups are made of since they are usually small sample sizes that don't represent the mean when using bargain ammo. That's why overall averages are important for standard deviation (SD), extreme spread (ES), and of course group size when testing.

    The tale of the tape will be shooting over a chronograph. I highly recommend it for testing 22LR and also testing a statistically significant number of data points, ie about 30. When the data is compiled, it allows you to see how good or bad your ammo is. You are able to see that the tiny group you shot had less than 25fps difference on the string. When a shot is way off target, you can see that it wasn't your hold or trigger pull - there was, for example, a 75fps differential that put that shot higher or lower than the group.

    So going out on a limb - here's my totally biased prediction:

    These will shoot about the same. Some groups will be better or worse, but these are usually in the 1-1/4 - 2.5" range (at 50yds). Plink with these, enjoy these. Shoot as many soda cans as you like. If you get a small group, then celebrate because these typically have SD of 25 and ES of 100fps.

    Winchester M 22
    Remington Thunderbolt
    Winchester Super X 36 gr 1280 fps
    CCI Blazer
    Aguila Super Extra


    The next group **should** be better. These **should** have fewer flyers. The Geco match really isn't "match" like the Wolf or SK offerings, but both the Geco and CCI green tag (ie the best lots of CCI SV) **should** have SD near17-18 and ES of about 75-80. You will probably get a brag group out of these. You will probably also get a group greater than 1" at 50yds.

    Geco Match
    CCI Green Tag
    Most Tac 22 is here also

    This group and the next group should give the best groups from the list, like the rest of the internet says. Wolf/SK should group under 1" at 50yds and some much smaller than that. The problem is that there are still flyers and more consistent / less consistent lots. One brick might shoot lights out. The next one might have to be burnt up in a pistol. Don't let one flyer sour your feelings on an otherwise reasonable group. These cost more and are generally the best "accuracy for the money." The 452 isn't a "match rifle" but is also "good for the money." This is usually the balance point in terms of how much most people want to pay for ammo and how much accuracy they are willing to live with. From here on out you will have to measure SD and ES yourself, because these mid range ammos are hard to call.

    Wolf MT
    SK STD
    A few lots of Tac22 and most lots of Norma Match 22 are here

    This group should have a reduced amount of flyers and have better consistency than the best lots of the above. However, it is possible that your individual rifle may not shoot these much better than the one above. Barrel harmonics, tuning, and the velocity range that the individual rifle shoots the best all come into play.

    SK Pistol M
    SK Rifle M
    Wolf ME

    The final group (none on the list) are the "top of the line" match ammos - Lapua (Center X, Midas, Xact), Eley (Tenex), RWS (R-50, R-100), etc. They are expensive, but they are the most statistically consistent. The bottleneck with using these is most likely the CZ 452 (gasp, right? - go ahead and flame away.)

    Final thought: In my humble opinion, the shooter has to balance the equipment with the ammo budget and the law of diminishing returns as it relates to potential accuracy gains. Not to mention that in the state of SD, the wind is going to play havoc on comparing group sizes, but the ES and SD can be compared. The issue will always be "SSDD" - same shooter different day.

    Those are my thoughts - good luck finding the best ammo!
     
  19. BigDog1955

    BigDog1955 Member

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    Thanks for all the help I'm still going to clean,shoot at 50 yards a 10 round mag and 2 - 5 round mag's on three targets and clean and proceed thru all the different ammo types this way. then pick the top five and clean shoot 20 and 30 rounds, not sure on how many targets?? clean and then shoot the other 4 this way to see where I'm at. then I can pick something that works in my rifle and budget. Then I can repeat the process at 100 yards.. Again thanks a lot, I will keep track of the results and show U all!! :) Now I need to make so targets out of those old job site prints and sharpies :)
     
  20. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    Unless you are trying to compete at benchrest, I would look at something priced like CCI Blazer, Federal 510 or even Federal Automatch and call it a day....I have 4 CZ's, have had others and have shot or shot against a pile of others. They generally all do/did well with those ammos.

    If you want standard velocity, CCI SV is hard to beat in performance for the price. I have a 452 FS that I probably haven't cleaned in 2-3 years. Occasionally, I will check the scope zero off a rest and rear bag from 50. It easily puts 5 shots in a 1" target paster. 1/2" groups aren't uncommon, either.

    Top tier ammo won't make a CZ a top tier rifle. However, good ammo will do very well out of a good sporter weight rifle like a CZ.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  21. BigDog1955

    BigDog1955 Member

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    While cleaning yesterday I knew I was going to re sight in at 50 with SK Standard so I re torqued the rale and scope mounts. I'm testing everything with the action bolts torqued at 25 in lbs. I going to use my Lead sled to shoot from and I have not decided if I want to strap it in or let it rest on the front pad?? I have shot both ways. I also like to us my sand bags but it seems the old shoulder isn't as steady as I thought it was. Not sure on the strapping in the front for arm or not because I can change the pressure each time I pull it tight while cleaning, which would change the harmonics of the barrel. I made sure the barrel was free floating so the folded typing paper would slide with out any hang ups. Which way do U all think I shout go , strapped in or resting? again thanks
     
  22. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I shoot sporter weight rifles from a bipod or mechanical front rest and a quality rear bag. They generally require a tight hold.
     
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  23. Picher

    Picher Member

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    I won't shoot Remington rimfire ammo! It's the worst in all my rifles.
     
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  24. Picher

    Picher Member

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    I've spent so much money testing ammo for rimfire benchrest competition, but only about 1 batch in 100 will win matches consistently. It's a crap shoot, and the best ammo seems to go to the top shooters. Not fair, IMHO. What's the most discouraging is that some lots group beautifully, but have flyers that destroy good scores. After many years, I gave up on Rimfire Benchrest.
     
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  25. George Dickel

    George Dickel Member

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    Accuracy can differ greatly between lot numbers of the same brand of ammo. During my rimfire benchrest years I have had lot numbers that shot fantastic but another lot in the same brand and grade level that performed worse than a shotgun pattern. My advice, and we all have some, is to try to identify a brand that your rifle likes and then buy a number of lot numbers in that brand and grade level. You may find a lot number that gives the performance you want and if you do, buy as much of it as you can afford because another good lot may not be there when you need more ammo.
     
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