.22 LR hunting small game: rifle v. pistol?

[obxned]

Get a Savage .22/20g over/under! Other than large bears, this gun will easily take any animal that you might meet and want to eat.

 

[AStone]

Thanks for continued advice. My thoughts continue to evolve.

JMorris, I've got a SOG multi-tool instead of a leatherman. It has served me well for almost two decades.

Blakenzy, good ideas. Please let me clarify one point:

if I were carrying two long guns for a week long hike, it wouldn't be long before I left one behind to make my life easier.

Rest assured, I have never entertained any thought of carrying two long guns while hiking. It ain't gonna happen.

In fact, that relates to my exercise in building this kit.

Yes, I want to have multiple long guns in camp - that'll be at least a Marlin 39A in .22, 336A in .30-30, 870 in 12 ga, and perhaps an 1895G in .45-70.

But I won't be carrying (that is, walking with) more than one of them at any time during hikes away from base camp. I see myself carrying only one long gun and one handgun at one time, but they will compliment each other in terms of caliber.

My goal is to carry one of each so that I'm covered for small game and large game/threats. So, if I walk with my 39A .22LR rifle, then I've also got my 686 in .357M for larger stuff (or, once I actually get to AK, perhaps a larger caliber like a .44 mag or a .454C). If I walk with my 336 in .30-30 (or the 870 or an 1895G in .45-70), then I carry a .22 LR revolver, like the 617.

The other long guns and handguns remain in base camp in the safe, with other members of the camp community remaining there to take care of things.

Does that make sense? I'm not saying that's the optimal strategy for everyone. Different strokes for different folks. Some, like obxned, will choose an over/under in .22 and 20 ga. And that's fine. But as I explained in post #37, it's just not the path I've chosen to walk.

In conclusion, if I were in your shoes I would get a six shot(not 10) S&W 617 in 4 or 6'' and practice a great deal with it before hand. I think that with a little skill you will be able to consistently take small game with out problem.

I like that 617 a lot. I haven't shot one yet, but have handled it at my local shop.

It's nearly identical to my 686 in terms of design, and would make a great practice revolver, and no doubt a wonderful little hunting gun for rodents and rabbits. I could probably even use the same trail holster for it as for my 686 (as long as I get a 4" barrel, like my 686).

But for mostly irrational reasons, I'm still balking at that much weight for a .22LR revolver for this particular tool kit. It's why I'm also considering a Ruger Single Six and others.

But, I've got some time for a decision. As always, I'm doing my homework here (sometimes for many months) before I buy.

Nem

 

[DakotaSig]

I think you are over-complicating this.

I would rely on the handgun for SD. Use a big bore revolver. Practice a LOT. Load it for bear and carry it 24/7.

Use your 336 for hunting. Load it with the appropiate ammo. for the game you are after that day. Spend time practicing, so you know how the POI changes with each kind of ammo.

BTW it sounds like a grand adventure

 

[AStone]

I think you are over-complicating this.

Gee, that's never happened before ...



As others on THR will tell you, I always enjoy sorting out schemes. I'm an academic type that studies and teaches about complex systems. So my analysis tends to run towards the ... um, complex.

But it's easy to think big, then sort out the necessary from the superfluous. That way, all the bases get covered, and I wind up with what I need. (I'm very, very happy with the way my tool kit has shaped up over the last 1.5 years, and it's been guided by just this kind of exercise with LOTS of great feedback and advice from my fellow high roaders.)

 

[AStone]

Thread title change

As we all know, after a short edit window, we can't change thread titles.

That's cool. This one - .22 LR hunting small game: rifle v. pistol? -
reflected my thinking when I started this thread.

Now, that's evolved, so it's time to clarify. It's no longer "rifle v. pistol".
(In retrospect, that title was a bit misleading to begin with.)

The title should have been,
Hunting small game: questions about .22 LR handguns.

I've got the .22 rifle, and it will be used mostly for small game.
(In addition to snares, which I'm now studying.)

I seek to add a .22 LR handgun to augment my toolkit.
Now it's just a matter of which .22 handgun.

Yeah, that's more like it.

A late edit, but better late than never.

 

[Dooger]

No, I'm preparing for a wilderness adventure in Alaska. I want to go live there, probably somewhere between Fairbanks and Anchorage.

Sometimes, I'll be after deer. Other times I'll be after rabbit, but want the capacity to take deer. Sometimes I'll be going out to set snares and see a rabbit.

Ummm, I hate to break this to you but there aren't any deer in interior Alaska unless you want to count moose which are a member of the deer family. No rabbits either but that's a nit-picky issue. What are found in that part of Alaska are hares. A little bigger and tougher to kill than a cottontail.

And too, there aren't any squirrels big enough in that country to bother with thinking about eating them. They're mostly about the size of a big chipmunk and are really tough and disgusting in flavor. Think about eating innertube rubber that tastes a lot like spruce tree inner bark here. That'll give you the general idea.

But there are lots of grouse in some areas which are easy to pot and pretty tasty if you don't mind dark meat. Those are easy enough to kill with a .22LR in either a pistol or rifle persuasion. Shots are typically close (5 to 15 yds) and they often hang around if you screw up and miss the first shot.

So with all that in mind here are my recommendations on firearms. For a rifle I'd recommend a Marlin lever in 45-70 or one of the newer powerful big bore cartridges. The Marlin Guide Gun would be perfect. For a handgun I'd go with a .41 mag minimum and more likely a .44 mag or one of the more powerful calibers...which would be carried with full house loads in the cylinders and a pocket full of light loads to be used for hares, grouse etc..

I've shot tons of those hares with everything from 12 ga and #6's to a Ruger Single Six. I would not expect a revolver to reliably drop them with anything other than head shots at any range beyone a few yards. The revolver loses too much velocity vs a rifle and it's just not up to the job in my experience. A semi-auto in pistol in .22LR is somewhat better and if it's accurate and equipped with decent sights then I wouldn't feel undergunned for the hares out to 20 yards or so. Beyond that I can only recommend a rifle for it's better hitting power and ability to get good hits with consistently.

The best for small game in AK in the situation you are describing is what others have suggested...light loads in your rifle cartridge. But I've taken a ton of hares and grouse with a heavy lead SWC bullet in a Ruger SBH handloaded to about 850 FPS (about factory .45 Colt power) and they get great one shot kills with a minimum of meat damage. Mostly cutting a clean full caliber hole through the recipient.

I lived and hunted and worked in the woods in that part of the country for about 30 years. Still have a cabin on a little lake somewhere west of Willow, AK...over across the Susitna River a ways. It's about a 7 mile hike in from the end of the road or fly in to the lake.

 

[AStone]

And too, there aren't any squirrels big enough in that country to bother with thinking about eating them.

Dang. That alone is enough to make me reconsider the plan.

No squirrels? Squirrel stew is the best.

But there are lots of grouse in some areas which are easy to pot and pretty tasty
if you don't mind dark meat.

Squirrel is dark meat. I think grouse would be fine.

For a rifle I'd recommend a Marlin lever in 45-70 or one of the newer powerful big bore cartridges.
The Marlin Guide Gun would be perfect.

Already on my list!

I've been looking at my 336 in .30-30 as a training rifle for that 45-70.

What would you use the .45-70 for up there?

Yeah, hares v rabbits. Guilty as charged for equating them. Hopping meat.

Hmm... Maybe I'll think about BC. Long as it's north of here and in big open country. That's what I'm most after.

I know there's deer in BC.

Thanks, Dooger. Good suggestions. Keep the advice coming.

Nem, the pioneer

PS: welcome to THR

 

[AStone]

The Marlin Guide Gun would be perfect.

Already on my list!

I posted the following in another thread (post 362) earlier tonight.

I handled an 1895G in .45-70 today for the first time at Bimart.

I've seen them before on the racks from a distance, and have been reading a LOT about them. But today was the first one I handled.

I was astounded at how good it felt. Astounded. The balance and quickness to point is ... well, beyond words. Even significantly faster than my 870. Makes me once again want to lop off a couple of inches of barrel off my 336A.

I have little doubt I'll get one sooner or later.

Just seems to be in my cards ...

 

[JustsayMo]

Nem, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a superior hunting rifle when factors of portability, accuracy and on game performance than the Guide Gun. As with everything there is compromise, ie ability of shooter to make quality shots at longer ranges, but within realistic hunting ranges the 45-70 is a great performer.

The 336 covers a broader spectrum (especially if you handload) up to black Bear, but the 45-70 is what I'd carry anywhere there are brown bears, Elk or Moose.

Dooger makes another good case for the Single Six with the 22 WRM cylinder on tougher small game. If you can deliver a shot accurately the 22 mag out of a handgun is zipping along at 1400 fps which is faster than most 22lr ammo out of rifle.

There aren't many (realistic) situations though that I'd under equipped with a 22 rifle (the 39 is my preference too) and a large bore revolver with quality ammo.

 

[AStone]

There aren't many (realistic) situations though that I'd under equipped with a 22 rifle (the 39 is my preference too) and a large bore revolver with quality ammo.

I'm starting to think that the following could be an optimal wilderness tool kit for me:

1895G in .45-70
686 in .357 mag (maybe even w/ 3" barrel)​

Back at base camp:

39A in .22 LR
870P with slugs & 00.​

Tomahawk, of course.

 

[Mannlicher]

Imagine in some future world, you are limited in the number of guns
that you could carry with you to acquire food.
(Yeah, I know, that's a stretch. But work with me here.)

nah, I won't limit myself is MY imaginary world.

 

[AStone]

Bumpity bump

.22 LR:

What's not to love?

 

[Quoheleth]

.22 rifle suggestion

While I have nothing against the Marlin 39 LA .22, if you want something even lighter & more packable, give this one a check: the Browning BL-22. It's about 4 inches shorter than the Marlin (which, of course, also means a few less rounds in the tubular magazine - I think only 14 LRs) and over 1 1/2 pounds less. That doesn't sound like much, but when you're humping through the forest, ounces add up fast. That's an extra 1 1/2 pound of something else you can carry.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=005B&cat_id=024&type_id=101

FWIW, in one of his books (Good Friends, Good Guns, Good Whiskey) Skeeter Skelton gets into a very similar argument with his good buddy, Dobe, as they sat at fireside one evening. "If you could have one gun, what would it be?" Skeeter asked Dobe. Dobe started out with a 12 gauge, a scoped .30-06, a .44 Mag, a .22 pistol (revolver) and I'm thinking there was one more. As they talked, Skeeter snookered him out of the shotgun, got him to drop the '06, and that left the 2 pistols. The .44 would be for big stuff (including BGs) and the .22 for small game. (NB: He wanted a .22 revolver so he didn't have to worry about losing or damaging a mag somewhere along the way. Thought that comment may be useful for your consideration). After a brief but hot argument, Dobe stomped out of the house to feed the horses & cows. WHen he came back in, he carried a couple of head-shot rabbits and a now-wet .22 pump rifle. He gave Skeeter the final answer: "If I could have only one gun, it would be a .22 rifle."

As Dobe said, "It *is* kinda a fun game, isn't it?"

Thanks for the mental exercise.

 

[ArmedBear]

I have a 22/45 with a 6 7/8" slabside bull barrel, a limited run at the time but now similar to some regular catalog guns.

Offhand, the groups I shoot with it look pretty similar to what I can shoot with my factory-stock 10/22, no sling.

I think that, with the right kind of pistol, you're limited by your ability to see the target, not the gun. For me, the right kind of pistol has a long, heavy barrel.

 

[Radagast]

Another vote for the single six convertible. I find it an easier gun to shoot than the 617 and just as accurate. The 22 magnum cylinder gives you a better kill probability.

 

[Brian Williams]

A number of yeas ago an article was written by John Taffin about the Shootists' holiday. One of the "attendees" used a Ruger OM single six in 22lr with one charge hole reamed to 22mag. this seems like a great idea because with the OM rugers you have to carry one hole empty al the time, If it were specifically marked and reamed to 22Mag, If you happened upon a situation where you need to have a little more uumph than a lr, just open the loading gate and rotate the cylinder and slip in a 22mag in the open charge hole, rotate it to the prefiring postion, take your shot and then Rotate it to the load gate empty the empty 22mag case and then spin it around to set the hammer on.
I have a S&W 35 and I have often thought about having the barrel trimmed an inch to 5" and having one of the charge holes reamed to 22mag. Most of my shooting is with 22lr and only occasionally would I use 22mag.

 

[eliphalet]

If I am really hunting and serious about it with a 22 I use a rifle.
Brian above has an idea on different ammo, and you don't necessarily need to ream a cylinder out. With the a Single-Six I have carried the first one with bird or snakeshot then a CB cap if you need quiet and then on to a Stinger if killing power is needed. I gave up on the snake shot thought cause of the dozen or two rattlers I have shot with my Single-Six, I shot all with a regular 22 bullet anyway. Always kinda thought a fast close shot might be good with the birdshot but it never happened.

 

[skeeter1]

I have gone squirrel hunting with just a .22 revolver, S&W M35, 6" barrel. It works fairly well to ~25yds. Much beyond that, I won't take a shot. That's what rifles do better.

 

[warriorsociologist]

How about a NEF 20ga (Topper or perhaps the new 20ga. Tamer) + a Glock 19 w/ an added AA .22LR upper? This seems to be a pretty inexpensive and versitile combo.

 

[borrowedtime69]

rare choice for your situation

if it were me, i would want to save as much weight as possible while knockin around the bush. you want to carry as light weight ammo as possible that will still do the job.

.22LR/.410 the Springfeild Armory M6

you can carry 100's of .22 LR shells and a few boxes of .410 shells. you can also customize your ammo. i carry shot shells an 000 buckshot. the gun is absurdly basic and is very accurate. i've hunted rabbit and squirrel successfully with both the shotgun and rifle. these guns were discontinued years ago but can still be found at gun shows, pawn shops and gun stores.

my companion handgun would be a Ruger Redhawk double action with 5.5" barrel in .44 Mag. this would allow you to take deer out to about 45 yards or so and is also a good bear defense caliber. you would have the double action for quick shots and the single action for accurate hunting.

- Eric

 

[AStone]

Don't'cha just love it when dead threads find a second ... or in this case, a third life?

Let's talk more about OU .22 LR/shotgun combos.

What's the word?

 

[achildofthesky]

Nem, take a look at one of these for your main rifle...

I bought one of the Hammond Game Getter setups (shown below) for my Marlin 1895 Co-pilot in 45-70 (they also make them in pretty much any caliber and round ball is pretty easy to get and cheap). At 25 yards it will shoot coke can end size groups pretty reliably using either .457 round balls or using the swedging die provided in the kit (yellow box) .490 round balls (not as accurate as a round ball). When the larger balls are ran through the die with a hammer and punch a conical sort of "bullet" is made. It is a single shot sort of deal and the power is supplied by a nail setting blank of 1 of 5 different strengths. I use the brown (weak) and green (best accuracy/consistancy and it will easily drive the round ball 1/2 way or more through a 2x8 at 30') and carry a few of the yellow (second highest velocity, drives the ball or bullet through the 2x8 at 30') as well.

In .457 diameter, the ball weighs about 175 grains or so as I recall and shoots to point of aim to 25 to 30 yards cheaply and quietly, not scaring every critter with in miles. The pix of the target shows on the left about 15 rounds with the green loads and on the right about 12 shots with the weaker brown loads. This was at 25 yards. A box of 100 of the blanks is about $3.50 and the roundball is about $7.00 per 100 offering pretty inexpensive shooting in what ever your main deer rifle caliber is. Unfortunately, here in Aarghkansas we can't use centerfire rifles for small game outside of big game season so I use a scoped 22 rifle.

If you have not tried CCI CB longs or shorts (also shown below) do give 'em a shot, they are breaking twig quiet in a rifle and I use them in my 4x scoped M39 mountie with great success on tree rats and bunnies for snacks for me and my pet kitty, puddin the bobcat (shown with her pet cat). They are exceptionally accurate to 25-30 yards and then they drop rapidly and at 50 yards are visable in the scope. Great for head shots and they go through and through both squirlz and rabbits at the ranges mentioned. I also like the fact they will not travel very far if you make a bad shot. I had a chance to compare them with a supresses 22 shooting 22 subsonics and they are pretty close in lack of noise with the CB's being just a smidge louder than a silenced 22 ruger 10/22. They go pfffft like a air rifle rather than the sonic crack one associates with a 22. The CB's prolly won't cycle a semi auto though... I load them alternately with standard 22 hollow points incase I need a little more poop for distance. The Marlin cycles them without a hiccup.

I know it isn't a pistol so please forgive me that, but a much less expensive couple alternatives to a $4-500 pistol that are pretty fun and interesting to me anyway...


www.gamegetter.ca

Be safe
Patty

 

[MCgunner]

My favorite handgun hunting platform is the contender. I have a 10" .22 scoped contender barrel that will make any .22 rifle cry in absolute shame. I have a .30-30 and a .410 barrel for it. Actually, with just one frame, I could hunt anything that walks the continent. I could get rifle barrels and a rifle stock for it, too. Just one gun will do it all.

Now, if I want one gun/barrel set up, I think it's hard to beat a double barrel shotgun. I like my little Spartan coach gun, accurate out to reasonable ranges with slugs, tight patterns with the full choke using winchester AA 7.5s. Can shoot 3". It's a 20 gauge, can be had in 12. As a survival tool, IMHO, a little gun like this coach gun is real hard to beat. You ain't lookin' to make it sporting if it's survival. It's hard to miss a squirrel inside 40 yards with a good patterning shotgun. Running rabbits are pot meat. Deer out to maybe 75 yards is dead to a foster slug. I have to use a little kentucky windage with the Spartan due to barrel regulation, but have practiced and can make hits to that range. And, I can break this little gun down and stow it in my backpack.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What's the scenario? Are you hunting big game, and get an opportunity to take a squirrel or rabbit?

If so, the .22 pistol is the way to go -- I've killed many a squirrel or other small critter while hunting deer or elk. Carrying two rifles is just too clumsy!!

On the other hand, if you're hunting for survival, but can choose your quarry, take a rifle (or shotgun) for small game, and leave it in camp when after big game.

Or, to be really versatile, get a drilling.

 

[AStone]

Vern,

I had to reread my OP to remember the answer to your question about scenario.

Since we brought this thread back to life, could be a good time to reread that post 1.

I'm a revolver guy for larger calibers (see signature).

But .22 revolvers are just too big and bulky for this job.

I'm thinking a .22 pistol like a Buckmark Hunter could be just the ticket.

Nem