22 LR vs 22 WMR in revolvers

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I've been shooting various brands of .22 WMR for decades and have never had a dud round.
This is the response I get every time I talk about my experiences with .22 Mag and the unreliable priming; someone has shot it for decades and never one single, solitary dud

I too have shot many brands and every box has at least 1 dud, all fired from single action revolvers. Aguila was the worst.

I have several theories as to why that is, how .22 LR has less failures in my .22 LR/Mag single actions, and I'm thinking that the long necks on the .22 Mag allows the priming compound to get stuck and never get into the rim or only partially. Another is I think the rims are thicker on .22 Mag and thus harder to ignite the primer, but I don't know that for a fact.

Other than that, it's befuddling. I guess I'm gonna have to start saving all my duds just to prove it.
 
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I can’t think of any wmr duds either. LR, plenty although they will usually fire on re-attempt. Still pretty uncommon, 1:2-300? Definitely firearm plays a role
 
Add me as another that can't recall having a dud in .22WMR.

.22 LR? Plenty of duds.

I'm going to blame that on bulk ammo in several guns I've used bulk ammo in.

I'm also going to blame that on my Marlin 39AS as it would produce "duds" on its own more often than any other gun I've owned. Once I modded the rebounding hammer strut on that Marlin, the dud rate has plummeted.

I'd bet if that Marlin was chambered in .22 WMR, I'd be telling you all of all the duds I've experienced in .22 WMR.
 
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Many years ago when I a was dedicated jackrabbit hunter I shot a lot of 22 mag and I don't remember a single dud. A few years ago I shot it some in a cheap single action revolver and never had a dud. Recently I've fired a box of 22 mag and haven't had a dud. I started shooting the 17 HMR years ago as soon as ammo became available for it. I have had exactly one dud with it and it was with recently manufactured ammo. If I were having frequent duds with either ammo I would look to see what is wrong with the gun I was firing it in. My two cents and exactly worth what you paid for it.
 
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Funny, when I think back on it.
I had bought a old Ruger Single Six and shot .22LR out of it for like 5 years, before I noticed the cylinder had .22 mag stamped in it! :eek:
That was my first full size .22 mag.
My first .22 mag handgun was a Davis DM 22 M over under derringer I bought as a project ($20).
It shot long rifles just fine.
I wanted more than 6 shots so bought a stainless steel Taurus 941 .22 mag featuring swing out cylinder, 4 " barrel instead of 6", its nicer to carry inside my parka while snowmobiling than the 6" Ruger.
I liked the rugers accuracy and that was about all, I sold it to a guy that appriciated it more than I should have.
So Im happy and the guy I sold the single six to is happy.

Then I picked up a project revolver.
A high standard sentinel mk 4, 3", fixed sights & swing out cylinder.
This is more pocket pistol than holster gun with more than 6 shots.
 
FWIW, Reference duds in .22 Magnum, in the last ~50 years I've had at least three Ruger SA revolvers with a .22 WMR cylinder. I cannot recall a single dud. My revolvers had factory mainsprings...
 
Many years ago when I was dedicated jackrabbit hunter I shot a lot of 22 mag and I don't remember a single dud. A few years ago I shot it some in a cheap single action revolver and never had a dud. Recently I've fired a box of 22 mag and haven't had a dud. I started shooting the 17 HMR years ago as soon as ammo became available for it. I have had exactly one dud with it and it was with recently manufactured ammo. If I were having frequent duds with either ammo I would look to see what is wrong with the gun I was firing it in. My two cents and exactly worth what you paid for it.
That's what I would do too, but with these same revolvers I've shot an extensive amount of .22 LR with the appropriate cylinder and had significantly less FTF's and it's not like I'm exclusively shooting premium .22 LR in them either, I've shot a lot of bulk pack and Remington ammo and if I get an FTF with .22 LR it's a surprise.

So, that there tells me the guns are working fine, but there's something wrong with .22 Mag. Unless, maybe, there's something wrong with all three .22 Mag cylinders I own, but that's so preposterous I do not believe it is the issue.

BTW, when I've said dud before, I use it interchangeably with FTF. Hve gotten a few duds with no primer in the rim, but most of my issues with .22 Mag are an FTF on the first strike. A second hit will usually fire the round, but the FTF's on a first hit are way higher on .22 Mag than .22 LR.
 
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So, that there tells me the guns are working fine, but there's something wrong with .22 Mag. Unless, maybe, there's something wrong with all three .22 Mag cylinders I own, but that's so preposterous I do not believe it is the issue.

Three .22 WMR cylinders for how many guns? What make and model of guns?

One thing to note about .22 LR to .22 WMR is they have different rim diameters. On my Ruger revolvers, the round tip firing pin hits near the edge of .22 LR rims but further inward on .22 WMR rims. I could see how if a firing pin on a switch cylinder revolver was hitting too far inward on each .22 WMR that would give firing problems with .22 WMR, but less so with .22 LR.

Makes me wonder if a slightly larger firing pin diameter would fix this issue?

Edit to add: Here's a photo* of non-revolver firing pin strikes of two different rimfire firing pins on the same cartridge. The firing pin strike position changes slightly when swapping cylinders in a .22 LR/.22 WMR revolver due to rim diameter difference between the two cartridges. It's easy to see how the firing pin could be on the fringe of reliability when shooting .22 WMR.

*from here.
 
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...but that's so preposterous I do not believe it is the issue.
So it's less preposterous to believe that ALL .22Mag ammo experiences such a high dud rate? Like I said, if the rate was that high, we would ALL know about it. In fact, few people would fool with it at all.


BTW, when I've said dud before, I use it interchangeably with FTF.
Technically, "FTF" is Failure To Feed. Not fire. Cousin to "FTE", or failure to eject. If a cartridge doesn't go "bang", it's a misfire or "dud". There's absolutely no point in using an acronym if it can have dual meanings, especially within the same context. If a person says, "I had a bunch of FTF's with my Ruger MKII", what's the point of the acronym if I have to ask the meaning?
 
I have a couple 22 WMR revolvers, snubby, convertible single action, and after the last shortage made sure I had plenty of ammo for them. Then this came along for under $500. Had to have it and the barrel length does make a difference :)

medium.jpg
 
Technically, "FTF" is Failure To Feed. Not fire. Cousin to "FTE", or failure to eject. If a cartridge doesn't go "bang", it's a misfire or "dud". There's absolutely no point in using an acronym if it can have dual meanings, especially within the same context. If a person says, "I had a bunch of FTF's with my Ruger MKII", what's the point of the acronym if I have to ask the meaning?

Thanks. That saved me typing basically the same thing.
Had to have it and the barrel length does make a difference :)

Of course it does.
 
I have never had a 22m ag fail to fire in a Ruger revolver but have had a couple in my old Marlin 783 with Winchester brand ammo. I have also had a few Winchester cases split on firing. Apparently this is not an unheard of happening with Winchester ammo. I have read about it in a couple of magazine articles many years ago. I have never had it happen with the Armscor ammo I like so much.

22 mag cases are not soft copper like 22lr cases are. They have a higher amount of Zinc in them because of the much higher pressure. Apparently its a balancing act to get the cases soft enough for the firing pin to crush the rim but not so soft that the cases blow out.

So when someone says they have had a misfire in a 22 mag I believe them. But I also wonder if the gun isn't partially to blame. But any misfire I have had always fired when the case was rotated and tried again. Rimfire rounds that fail to go off are not an unheard of thing and usually goes with the quality (cost) of the ammo. Thats why CCI has such a good reputation with the rimfire ammo they sell. Its good stuff.
 
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22 mag cases are not soft copper like 22lr cases are. They have a higher amount of Zinc in them because of the much higher pressure. Apparently its a balancing act to get the cases soft enough for the firing pin to crush the rim but not so soft that the cases blow out.
They are all brass and both cartridges operate at the same pressure.
 
Haven't shot my 5 1/2" Freedom Arms M97 in a while. Did limited chrono/accuracy work early on. The .22 Mag cyl was consistently more accurate vs. the LR (limited testing).

Some chrono results:

Fed 36gr HP American Eagle .22 LR .............................. 1,058 fps avg
CCI 33gr HP CCI Stinger .22 LR ...................................... 1,297 fps avg

CCI 30gr TNT Max Mag .22 WMR .................................... 1,648 fps avg
CCI 40gr JHP .22 WMR .................................................... 1,404 fps avg

The M97

View attachment 969959

Paul
Some pretty fine looking gear there!
 
They are all brass and both cartridges operate at the same pressure.

Thanks. I don't know why I said copper for the 22lr I meant brass but that the 22 mag has a different formula for the brass case they use. At least per an old Guns & Ammo article.
 
The pressure is the same so no need to use anything different between the two. The .22Mag is a bit larger in diameter.
 
Three .22 WMR cylinders for how many guns? What make and model of guns?
Two NAA's and one Heritage.

One thing to note about .22 LR to .22 WMR is they have different rim diameters. On my Ruger revolvers, the round tip firing pin hits near the edge of .22 LR rims but further inward on .22 WMR rims. I could see how if a firing pin on a switch cylinder revolver was hitting too far inward on each .22 WMR that would give firing problems with .22 WMR, but less so with .22 LR.

Makes me wonder if a slightly larger firing pin diameter would fix this issue?
I had forgot the rim diameter was different, but it's possible that could be an issue, however given that these revolver are built around .22 Magnum, I'd think the .22 LR would be more susceptible to issues.

I doubt that a larger firing pin would fit thru the hole and on the NAA's it's integral with the hammer.
 
Two NAA's and one Heritage.

I had forgot the rim diameter was different, but it's possible that could be an issue, however given that these revolver are built around .22 Magnum, I'd think the .22 LR would be more susceptible to issues.

I doubt that a larger firing pin would fit thru the hole and on the NAA's it's integral with the hammer.

Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of an out of spec part in something that uses a round tip firing pin. Rectangular tipped pins could have the same issue, but that would possibly require hammer replacement in a NAA.

If it was me I'd look at the spent brass of .22 WMR to see how well positioned and how deep the firing pin strikes are. I mentioned my Marlin 39AS in the thread having too many light strikes until I modified the rebounding hammer strut. After that mod, the strikes were much deeper and better defined. Of course, that's an easier fix than dealing with a firing pin in a single action revolver.
 
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Little thread drift - my FA97 has dual firing pins 180 deg apart. I can't remember ever having a "dud" with either 22 LR or 22 WMR. I had a bunch of bulk remington 22LR stuff that would that give 5 to 10 percent duds with multiple 22s. Shot it up with the FA M97 and never had a dud.

FWIW,

Paul
 
I have a Ruger single six and a NAA Blackwidow with dual cylinders. The Ruger has more rounds down range but neither has has had a 22 wmr not fire. I use the Ruger for hunting and the NAA is carried every day, both with the 22 wmr cylinder.
Years ago before I knew better I would shot 22 lr in the mag cylinder and never had a problem. The accuracy was not as good but I was lazy and did not know better.
 
Little thread drift - my FA97 has dual firing pins 180 deg apart. I can't remember ever having a "dud" with either 22 LR or 22 WMR. I had a bunch of bulk remington 22LR stuff that would that give 5 to 10 percent duds with multiple 22s. Shot it up with the FA M97 and never had a dud.

FWIW,

Paul
IDK when .22's (rifles) went from having dual firing pins to one, but having two seemed to aid in reliable primer ignition and I'd like to see dual firing pin rimfires come back depending on the price. The Freedom Arms is probably the only .22 revolver that has dual firing pins and for 2 grand it damn well should.

But a $2000 single action .22 that only holds 6 rds isn't something I would be interested in carrying tho.
 
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