.22 Short for self defense?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by TTv2, Nov 8, 2021.

  1. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,399
    The size of the NAA .22 Short mini to the .22 LR mini is the same except in one dimension: the length. The grip size and shape are the same, so if you have a .22 LR NAA revolver, it's not different than the Short and therein lies the reason I find the .22 Short mini revolver to be nothing more than a novelty as the extra half inch of length to get more power is worth it.

    That changes when we're talking about double action revolvers with the focus on making the gun as small and light as possible.
     
  2. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,680
    Location:
    South Carolina
    This thread has turned into a minimum cartridge for carry thread.
    I love pocket guns, J frames size revolvers and little 380s.
    I would like to try a little 32 ACP. I even did a thread on 32s.
    I would consider a LCPII in 22lr to go with my 380 for a fun shooter.
    That said, my minimum cartridge for carry is the 380. I just want a bigger hole than 22 or 25.

    We love to make the pointless statements (see @WrongHanded thread) better than a sharp stick. Many times a walking stick in your hands is better than a holstered handgun, (any handgun) to defend yourself.
     
    Monac likes this.
  3. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    11,324
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    A commonly held misconception. In most cases, a gun is more advantageous than no gun at all, but no gun at all certainly beats having a gun in some cases. Here is the most recent example I have seen...
    https://www.armytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021/10/25/average-joe-marine-stops-convenience-store-armed-robbery/#:~:text=Marine%20veteran%20James%20Kilcer%20foils%20a%20convenience%20store,service%20record,%20he%E2%80%99s%20not%20some%20kind%20of%20vigilante.

    Chances are if a public, church, school, or workplace active or mass shooter is stopped by folks in the intended victim pool, it is by a person not armed with a gun. Examples include Littleton's Deer Creek Middle School, Kelly Elementary, Thurston High School, New York New York Casino, Maryville Baptist Church, Hudson Vally Mall, Pennsylvania mall (Sylvia Seegrist), Gifford's shooting (Jared Loughner), etc.

    Don't get me wrong. Having a gun is certainly preferred to not having a gun, but don't think for a minute that having a gun necessarily means being victorious over someone without a gun.
     
    WisBorn likes this.
  4. WrongHanded
    • Contributing Member

    WrongHanded Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    3,046
    I'd take a sharp stick over a .22 short. A 3' or longer stick with a minimum of 1" in diameter, and sharpened to a point on one end. I could do some fast and serious damage with that.
     
    Monac and WisBorn like this.
  5. JCooperfan1911

    JCooperfan1911 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2020
    Messages:
    1,809
    For some people a .22 Short might be all they have access to or can handle the recoil from.

    My father once owned a Beretta .22 Short 950 and loaded with high velocity shorts, it would NOT be a gun to be taken lightly. For those with limited hand strength the barrel can be popped open and a round loaded in the chamber, negating the need to rack the slide. Simply cock and fire.
     
    DT Guy and wcwhitey like this.
  6. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    14,637
    Means nothing with respect to the adequacy of a defensive weapon.
     
    CDW4ME likes this.
  7. GEM

    GEM Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    10,214
    Location:
    WNY
    There are different 22 LR Mini grips. I found that the slip on rubberish grips made the 22LR 1 5/8 inch barrel version much more accurate than the 22 S. That being said, the 22 S is a novelty - which is why I bought one and I don't regard it as useful EDC except in some kind of deep BUG or cover which I probably never will get into. Even the 22 LR/22 Mag is not a primary. I did carry one in the field when hunting with some bird shot for the possible snake. Never had to use it and I wonder if it would work. I have a hankering for one of the break top versions - just because as I have a hankering for the Pedersoli 45/410 Howdah. Now that would stop someone but not my choice of for beside gun. There are better, so it's just a 'because' gun.

    The 22S. It's cute - as an aside, there is a cuteness metric of proportions which make babies and puppies cute. It supposed to be a genetic perceptual disposition to protect the young. Companies have applied it to various products, such as compact cars that appeal to females, appliances and Japanese anime characters. I think the 22s is cute, so I bought one.
     
  8. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    9,757
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    For real cute, there is the 4.25mm Liliput.
    I consider it a novelty or curio item.
    4.25mm almost 18 ft/lbs muzzle energy.
    An intellectual exercise in how small an autoloading pistol can be made and actually function but (to me) not a serious choice as a defensive weapon.

    Col Rex Applegate in "Kill or Get Killed" considered any weapon capable of penetrating an inch of flesh as potentially lethal, such as a single edge razor blade. So no laughing off a .22 Short from me.

    However, when I choose to go armed with a gun, the choice starts at .38Spl snub revolver.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
  9. Rodfac

    Rodfac Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    429
    Location:
    Kentucky
    As a defense round, the .22 Short must be at the bottom of any sensible list...IMHO...and if a defensive user is relying on a gun that fires a diminutive round as an intimidation factor, I'd opine that the attacker must be able to recognize the tiny object your holding as a gun. Micro autos and revolvers don't engender that level of awareness IMHO.

    YMMv but I vote for a gun that's recognizable as such, fires an effective round, and then dress around the gun...I'd give up the thong/speedos and flip flops when a gun is a necessary accessory to one's chosen activities. YMMv Best regards, and good luck. Rod
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
    Risky buisness likes this.
  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Messages:
    14,637
    That does not have anything to do with effective self defense.
     
    Monac, CDW4ME and LoonWulf like this.
  11. Rodfac

    Rodfac Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    429
    Location:
    Kentucky
    "That does not have anything to do with effective self defense." Well said.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2021
  12. golden

    golden Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,708
    I think it is a terrible idea!

    The .22lr is much more powerful and is still marginal for defense. If I wanted to use and .22 rimfire for self defense, it would be a .22 magnum with at least a 6 inch barrel to get some velocity or if not available, then a medium size .22lr semi auto with a 6 inch barrel, like the old COLT Woodsman or HI STANDARD or even a RUGER Mk I or II or III pistols loaded with STINGER .22 ammo. I would also still consider myself poorly armed and that would be a vast improvement over the weak .22 Short. Really, it has the power of a .25ACP without the reliability. Not a great selling point.

    Just my opinion.

    Jim
     
  13. bdickens

    bdickens Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,048
    Location:
    Hockley , TX
    At least in the .38 J-frame vs. high capacity semiauto threads we're debating amongst things that might actually hurt someone.
     
    JeffG and CDW4ME like this.
  14. TTv2

    TTv2 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,399
    Nothing wrong with buying a gun for the way it looks, one reason I'm so enamored with the Young America's is just how small they are.

    While I focused this topic on .22 Short because of its greater popularity to .22 Long, the H&R I bought is chambered for .22 Long and there should be an increase in velocity from using that over .22 Short enough that it may put it into the same power category as CCI Stinger, which quite a few believe is a top choice for short barrel .22 handguns for defense.
     
  15. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    I once had a Beretta 950BS Minx in .22 Short. Cute little gun, reliable, accurate despite tiny little sights. This was a while ago when pocket guns had to be in .25 or .22. It was a back up to my back up while working some details that such a thing might be needed, thankfully it never was. It was also about the same time Al Gore was inventing the internet so there was not a bunch of information about it. I did find a good article in one of the gun mags that did a bunch of testing with the identical gun and all the better brands of .22 short at the time. CCI HP was said to be a good one based on their clay, phone books and other older style media tests. It was also compared to the .22 LR version of the same gun. The long and short of the testing was that although the short did give up a bit to the .22 LR it was still more efficient in the shorter barrels than its big brother. The NAA's have even shorter barrels then the Beretta so this may be a consideration. In the age of the LCP and other mini guns of although not substantial calibers but definitely two to three times the power in a similar package its kind of a question of "why would you". If I still had it, it would not get used, even in the backup or third gun role. I cannot think of a situation where I could not conceal my LCP over a NAA mini revolver.

    I still have a good supply of .22 short, it does get used in my Rossi 4" Rossi 511, accurate, quiet and will dispatch a squirrel or rabbit quite nicely without hurting the ears.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
    WisBorn likes this.
  16. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8,815
    Location:
    Galveston Bay is an Hour Away ©
    Several years ago, I did some unscientific phone book testing with my Beretta Bobcat. Loading .22 ammo one at a time directly in the chamber. The only shorts I had at that time were the weaker CB versions.

    The results were that penetration into the phone books was similar across all the three types of .22 ammo. The only difference was that the faster a bullet was, the more it deformed. Also compared was .32 ACP with my NAA Guardian. The .32 ACP FMJ ammo penetrated twice as far as the .22 ammo types and without bullet deformation.

    But of course, people aren't made out of phone books.

    bobcat-test-2.jpg

    bobcat-test-3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
    ThomasT, WisBorn and wcwhitey like this.
  17. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    11,324
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    The question here is which round best stopped the aggression by the phone books.
     
    chicharrones likes this.
  18. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    6,555
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    The one that shot through the Lawyer section of the Yellow Pages.
     
  19. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    5,637
    Location:
    Burleson,Texas
    I haven't read the entire thread so sorry if I step on some toes. Long ago we were friends with a girl who spent 5 years in prison for her 22 short Derringer. Her mother owned a topless bar and she worked there as a topless dancer. One of the other girls was having a problem with a customer. So the girl loaned her a 22 Derringer she kept at the bar. The other girl walked up to the problem customer and shot him dead center in the chest. He dropped grave yard dead where he stood.

    So yes as I am sure it has been mentioned the 22 short can be deadly. But I can't think of a single reason to ever carry one unless its absolutely the only weapon you have. And the excuse that you can't handle more recoil doesn't work. No 22lr round recoils much and there are low powered 22LR rounds that work fine from a revolver.
     
    JeffG, WisBorn and Skgreen like this.
  20. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    11,324
    Location:
    Forestburg, Texas
    Yes, it worked as an execution tool in a NON self defense situation. The shooter and victim was not fighting. Lots of things can kill, but that does not mean that they are combat effective.

    With that said, there isn't likely to be be much modern day data on the use of this caliber for self defense...most notably because so few people use it for that, no doubt because it isn't combat effective.
     
    chicharrones, WisBorn and Skylerbone like this.
  21. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    8,815
    Location:
    Galveston Bay is an Hour Away ©
    You have amazing insight. :evil:

    bobcat-test-1.jpg
     
  22. dodo bird

    dodo bird Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2010
    Messages:
    675
    The millennials are still trying to figure out what a “phone book” is. And why shoot them? Why some are “white” some “yellow”? Sounds racist. ;)
    I miss phone books for test medium. Haven’t seen one in a long time. That used to be my go to for shooting .22 and pellet guns.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
    WisBorn and ThomasT like this.
  23. ThomasT

    ThomasT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    5,637
    Location:
    Burleson,Texas
    I am glad you understood the point I was making. :thumbup:
     
    WisBorn likes this.
  24. Ethan Verity

    Ethan Verity Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2021
    Messages:
    127
    I agree, yes actually getting that head shot with a micro pistol in a life or death scuffle would be a monumental feat in of itself. My tests also showed how just a few inch differences in shot placement changed the results from the bullet passing through the entire brain, to the bullet bouncing off the face with nothing more than a flesh wound. Those aren't odds I would want to bet my life on if something more powerful is available to me.
     
    chicharrones likes this.
  25. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    9,757
    Location:
    Kingsport Tennessee
    .22 CB Shorts are not .22 Short; they are 29gr bullet at 720 fps, air rifle velocity, "zimmerpatrone", indoor target shooting, killing rats in a barn rounds.They have their place.
    BUT.
    .22 Short are 29 gr bullet at 1100 fps in standard velocity, 1200 to 1300 fps in HV loads, not really Marvin the Martian approved earh-shattering-kabooms.but more effective on small game and vermin than .22 CB Short.
     
    chicharrones and JFrame like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice