qajaq59
Member
If you can't kill it with an 06 then it's probably already dead.
220 grain 30'06: what's the point?
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JesseL
Member
Twud said:
Why deal with the extra cost and recoil of a magnum when you don't need to? 10% more muzzle velocity and 1.5" less drop @ 300 yards doesn't strike me as particularly significant.
Many have cited the weight of the 220 grain bullet as aiding penetration on larger animals, but the blunt, almost hemispherical tip is at least as important to making that thing drill deep and straight. The old African elephant ctgs used very blunt nosed bullets, heavy for their diameter. Why, because they penetrated.
Float Pilot
Member
Here in Alaska the 30-06 is still extremely popular amongst us long time residents. Being tied with the 338 WIn Mag for about 35 to 40% each.
Most, if not all, of the folks out in the Alaskan bush villages have an Ought-Six. The 220 grain load is still fairly popular as are some of the heavy 240s and 250 for reloaders.
The Winchester model 1895 (Win 95) lever action in 30-40 Krag was also Extremely popular in the bush up until the 1980s when the guns wore out and the ammo supply started to run dry.
The packed uban areas with our newer immigrants tend to be the stomping gounds of the larger magnum calibers.
The blunt nose and solid construction of the 220 grain loads tend to make them good for skull shots of the larger bears.
Shot placement is still critical since I have seen a 30-06 glance off a Brown Bear's skull while he was charging. The 220 was also always good for smashing through a shoulder blade, particularly in heavy brush.
Before the partitions and all the newer bonded bullets, the old 220 blunt round nose is what folks looked for when they needed to stretch the performance of their Ought-Six.
Things have changed here, as we are now drowning in new folks, (many of them anti-hunting and anti gun) who moved here to save Alaska from us life long folks.
The amount of game animals has taken a severe drop and hunting now requires longer range shots. Plus the chances of being charged by a Brown Bear while out moose hunting is much reduced, as are their numbers....
Most, if not all, of the folks out in the Alaskan bush villages have an Ought-Six. The 220 grain load is still fairly popular as are some of the heavy 240s and 250 for reloaders.
The Winchester model 1895 (Win 95) lever action in 30-40 Krag was also Extremely popular in the bush up until the 1980s when the guns wore out and the ammo supply started to run dry.
The packed uban areas with our newer immigrants tend to be the stomping gounds of the larger magnum calibers.
The blunt nose and solid construction of the 220 grain loads tend to make them good for skull shots of the larger bears.
Shot placement is still critical since I have seen a 30-06 glance off a Brown Bear's skull while he was charging. The 220 was also always good for smashing through a shoulder blade, particularly in heavy brush.
Before the partitions and all the newer bonded bullets, the old 220 blunt round nose is what folks looked for when they needed to stretch the performance of their Ought-Six.
Things have changed here, as we are now drowning in new folks, (many of them anti-hunting and anti gun) who moved here to save Alaska from us life long folks.
The amount of game animals has taken a severe drop and hunting now requires longer range shots. Plus the chances of being charged by a Brown Bear while out moose hunting is much reduced, as are their numbers....
Much of the things that we think we know from charts and graphs are nothing but a general trend.
Hunter joe shoots several deer with his newest gun in some caliber with a certain bullet and happens to get hits that are slightly marginal and the deer run a ways. Next year he changes bullet brand and his next couple of hits are solid and the deer folds up like he was hit by lightining . Try to tell hunter joe that either bullet will get the job done!
Yes on paper the 220 30/06 should penetrate more with heavy animals but for best results use any rifle/caliber combo (within reason) that you feel you have the most confidence in getting good hits with .
I have a friend who is a serious target shooter who has lots of guns and great ability to use them. He uses a marlin lever gun in .357 with 200 gr cast bullet loads to harvest freezer deer with. It is an old Micro-grove barrel that doesn't shoot cast bullets as well as many other guns should. "the deer fall over just fine "
Hunter joe shoots several deer with his newest gun in some caliber with a certain bullet and happens to get hits that are slightly marginal and the deer run a ways. Next year he changes bullet brand and his next couple of hits are solid and the deer folds up like he was hit by lightining . Try to tell hunter joe that either bullet will get the job done!
Yes on paper the 220 30/06 should penetrate more with heavy animals but for best results use any rifle/caliber combo (within reason) that you feel you have the most confidence in getting good hits with .
I have a friend who is a serious target shooter who has lots of guns and great ability to use them. He uses a marlin lever gun in .357 with 200 gr cast bullet loads to harvest freezer deer with. It is an old Micro-grove barrel that doesn't shoot cast bullets as well as many other guns should. "the deer fall over just fine "
Oohrah
Member
I would echo the Float Pilot's thoughts! Don't believe you are under
gunned, and I feel it does give an edge on penetration on big stuff
rather than high vel. lighter bullets. Does give an equal amount of
back thrust, and over penetration on smaller game doesn't make a
differance, if vitals are hit, as the game goes down. Believe that
1 in 10 standard when used in 03s, but downsized weight improved
velocity and still maintained accuracy. The Garand built the gas
operation to the lighter weights to prevent to the hammering of the
220. Like someone said, sometimes the 1 in 10 proves to be more
accurate. Sometimes not!
gunned, and I feel it does give an edge on penetration on big stuff
rather than high vel. lighter bullets. Does give an equal amount of
back thrust, and over penetration on smaller game doesn't make a
differance, if vitals are hit, as the game goes down. Believe that
1 in 10 standard when used in 03s, but downsized weight improved
velocity and still maintained accuracy. The Garand built the gas
operation to the lighter weights to prevent to the hammering of the
220. Like someone said, sometimes the 1 in 10 proves to be more
accurate. Sometimes not!
Shawnee
member
Hi Float Pilot...
I'd be willing to bet many of your Magnum-toting "recent immigrants" would actually do better work with the Krag.
I'd be willing to bet many of your Magnum-toting "recent immigrants" would actually do better work with the Krag.
Float Pilot
Member
Yeap there ain't nothing like a city boy who saved up for 20 years only to show up with a 460 Weatherby magnum during moose season...
After shooting 6 or 7 rounds for sighting they are kinda flinchy....
I have killed every critter up here except Buffalo with a 7 x 57mm Mauser.
I don't hunt bears any more and they seem to know it. I go my way and they go their way...
After shooting 6 or 7 rounds for sighting they are kinda flinchy....
I have killed every critter up here except Buffalo with a 7 x 57mm Mauser.
I don't hunt bears any more and they seem to know it. I go my way and they go their way...
Nothing will make you forget about the .300 Win Mag faster than a look at ballistics charts. Can we say, "marketing"?
Now a .300 Weatherby really is a much faster round, but shooting one will make the mundane old .30-06 seem much more attractive. Not all that fun. Shot one with a muzzle brake; that wasn't bad at all. But I don't want to have to reach for the earplugs when I could already be shooting a gun without the brake. OTOH the first time I shot one, when I was a teen, we were shooting at coke bottles about 650 yards away, and hitting them, hard. Or at least, the old guys who knew how to shoot were hitting them.
Accurate, hard-hitting, but heavy guns that feel like a punch from Muhammad Ali in his prime.JohnBT
Member
"Why drive a Chevy when you can have a Mercedes for the same price?"
Because the Mercedes would have to have a full-time mechanic included in the purchase price to keep it running? There's lots of info available on this subject.
"‘‘We have seen a fairly rapid decline in reliability for Mercedes over the past five years,’’ says David Champion of Consumer Reports. ‘‘To put it in perspective, a 1998 Lexus LS400 would likely have less problems last year than a brand new2006 ML500.’’"
Because the Mercedes would have to have a full-time mechanic included in the purchase price to keep it running? There's lots of info available on this subject.
"‘‘We have seen a fairly rapid decline in reliability for Mercedes over the past five years,’’ says David Champion of Consumer Reports. ‘‘To put it in perspective, a 1998 Lexus LS400 would likely have less problems last year than a brand new2006 ML500.’’"
Just got back from the range. You guys are right. Who in their right mind would want one of those old, slow and obsolete ought-6s? Especially some ole' military piece of junk ....... like say a Springfield M1903. Just say no to those old and slow 30.06s. They are not really that danerous 
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Commander Guineapig
Member
that's such a nice looking rifle...
*drool*
*drool*
Commander Guineapig
Member
well the groups match the rest of the rifle...
very pretty!
well...bedtime...after I check gunbroker. I think I need to look at Milsurp Bolt actions in general.
GP
very pretty!
well...bedtime...after I check gunbroker.
I think I need to look at Milsurp Bolt actions in general.GP
U.S.SFC_RET
Member
Cost and common sense. Easier to shoot and easier to reload. Unless you want to shoot across to the other ridge line then go for it. The cost for those who don't reload is a factor. 30-06 gets underrated by those who want to chase the big boys, ie 300 win mag, 338 win mag, even the smaller 7mm Remington mag. Don't worry about killing those calibers off because there will always be some "public" opinion about how the 30-06 and the 270 just wasn't powerful enough.
Let me take to to a range and let you pull targets for a couple of hours and you will know for a fact that the 30-06 has much more than plenty of power to kill any armored or bulet proofed vest wearing deer. you will be convinced.
JNewell
Member
One of the sweetest shooting rifle/cartridge combinations around!
MCgunner
Member
If I were moose or bear hunting with a .30-06 and couldn't use something more powerful like a .338, I'd be real happy with a Barnes bullet in the 160-180 grain range. I don't see the need for a bullet over 180 grains, either, especially with all the good premium bullets around like the Barnes and Nosler Partitions.
Heck, I'll go one farther. What can the .30-06 do that the .308 can't? You say handle bullets over 180 grains? So what? LOL! A handloader can get a little more out of the .30-06 with its larger case, but not so much that your average elk is gonna notice. And, I think Hornady makes the light magnums in both calibers which gives 'em both a little boost.
I've got a 7 mag, but my little short action .308 is so easy to tote and I'm getting too old to carry a couple more pounds up and down the mountains all day. Weight counts to some of us. The light weight and handy size of the .308 is more important to me than the superior exterior ballistics of that big seven, let alone a .30-06, frankly.
Heck, I'll go one farther. What can the .30-06 do that the .308 can't? You say handle bullets over 180 grains? So what? LOL! A handloader can get a little more out of the .30-06 with its larger case, but not so much that your average elk is gonna notice. And, I think Hornady makes the light magnums in both calibers which gives 'em both a little boost.
I've got a 7 mag, but my little short action .308 is so easy to tote and I'm getting too old to carry a couple more pounds up and down the mountains all day. Weight counts to some of us. The light weight and handy size of the .308 is more important to me than the superior exterior ballistics of that big seven, let alone a .30-06, frankly.
hankdatank1362
Member
To the OP: the weight of the bullet isn't neccesarily what dictates the twist rate; rather it's the length of the bullet. However, the OAL and the weight often go hand in hand.
That being said, most .30-'06 rifles nowadays, in my experience, are being manufactured with twist rates from 1-12" to 1-14", for better long-range performance with lighter bullets. If I were going to use anything over 200gr (esp. 220 and 240) I would swap out barrels for a 1-10" like they used to make 'em.
That being said, most .30-'06 rifles nowadays, in my experience, are being manufactured with twist rates from 1-12" to 1-14", for better long-range performance with lighter bullets. If I were going to use anything over 200gr (esp. 220 and 240) I would swap out barrels for a 1-10" like they used to make 'em.
I will only say this, In most cases, the need to run up to a 220 in this day of premium 180's is rare. but give me something that bites back and I want a FMJ 220 from Hornady or a Nosler 220 Partition. I have seen a 220 run length wise thru a lion, I have seen one hit a musk ox at the front end and leave the animal at the tail. That is what you want when you need to kill something dangerous (no a musk ox is not dangerous, but its big and strong)
cpttango30
Member
Why go with a sissy 300 win mag when you can use a 475 A&M Mag. Shooting a 500 gr slug it produced almost 10,000 ft# of muzzle energy. Now that is a freekin magnum if there is one.
Or better yet is the 585 Nyati. So whats a little recoil got to do with anything?
Bullet Powder MV ME
750 Barnes RL-15 / Max 2525 10,620
When is big too big. Some of these rifles out there like the two I mention above will abuse anyone that shoots them. Shooting the 475A&M is said to be like going 5 rounds with a World heavy Weight boxing champ. So I am sure that the 585 is like going one on one bare nuckle with a Heavy weight boxer. No thanks.
Or better yet is the 585 Nyati. So whats a little recoil got to do with anything?
Bullet Powder MV ME
750 Barnes RL-15 / Max 2525 10,620
When is big too big. Some of these rifles out there like the two I mention above will abuse anyone that shoots them. Shooting the 475A&M is said to be like going 5 rounds with a World heavy Weight boxing champ. So I am sure that the 585 is like going one on one bare nuckle with a Heavy weight boxer. No thanks.
Nolo
Member
.30-06 is obsolete. At least, M2 Ball is. It's surpassed by the 7.62x51mm in almost every way. Now, the modern loadings of it are quite capable and versatile and it is one of the best cartridges for everything from coyotes to elephants.
cpttango30, you're thinking too small. Go with a 14.5x114mm and really blow their head off.
cpttango30, you're thinking too small. Go with a 14.5x114mm and really blow their head off.
USSR
Member
Nope. 1-10" remains the standard twist rate for the .30-06, with maybe one foreign made rifle offering it in a 1-12" twist.
Don
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