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223 and 5.56 labelling

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by montveil, Mar 6, 2012.

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  1. montveil

    montveil Member

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    I have several boxes of ammo that is labeled 223 AND 5.56X45
    Am I to assume it can be used in both a 223 and 5.56?

    Does this mean I can shoot it in my Handi 223
     
  2. firesky101

    firesky101 Member

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    Do you happen to have a brand, some more info would help. I would not feed it through a .223 though, if it said 5.56 on it anywhere.
     
  3. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    I would hope that it means that it can be fired in either and is not loaded to 5.56 NATO specs. However, since it does say 5.56 I would not shoot it in anything chambered for .223 Rem
     
  4. brnmuenchow

    brnmuenchow Member

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    I wouldn't run it if you don't have a 5.56 NATO chambered rifle, just to be on the safe side IMO.
     
  5. crracer_712

    crracer_712 Member

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    If you shoot it, get it on video and put it on youtube
     
  6. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    If it says .223, it should be .223!

    :what::eek: That's cold, man! :rolleyes:

    If it's labeled .223, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it in a rifle chambered for the .223 Rem. The fact that it's also labeled 5.56X45 is probably done for the idiots who might think that .223 rounds won't work in 5.56mm rifles. :D
     
  7. crracer_712

    crracer_712 Member

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    LMAO!!! I know it was!
     
  8. brnmuenchow

    brnmuenchow Member

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    lol.
    Yup. I guess I never looked at it that way... I don't think I have ever had anyone ask me that before.
     
  9. montveil

    montveil Member

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    Sellier & Bellot
    FMJ/M193
    223 Rem
    5.56X45
    3.6 g 55 grains
    4.4 boxer
     
  10. gym

    gym member

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    This could be a long debate, it's been covered before, try the search feature. You will encounter facts, rumors, and truths on this one.
     
  11. Perfesser

    Perfesser Member

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    When was it manufactured? As I remember, M193 and commercial .223 are basically the same cartridge and M193 is OK to use in civilian rifles. The problem began in the late 80's or 90's with the military loading with heavier bullets, and I think fiddling with chamber dimensions.
    My series 183 Mini-14, according to the manual, "is designed to use either U.S. military or commercial". I take that to mean M193 ammo made in the 80's and 90's since the rifle was made before the revised 5.56 started appearing. I would think that the rounds in question would be close to commercial .223 just like my stash of FNM 84 and 87.
    Does anyone have the M193 spec sheet handy to check?
     
  12. jackpinesavages

    jackpinesavages member

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    I had this debate with the Sportsmans Guide marketing morons.

    My rifle/barrel combo really prefers 62 gr. 5.56.

    Most of their ads. online list everything as .223/5.56. They responded but really did not care enough to ask what the fuss was about.
     
  13. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    It will depend on the pressure rating for that rifle. Contact the mfg to find out what the rifle's pressure rating is. 5.56 Nato is loaded to a higher pressure than 223.

    Jim
     
  14. shuvelrider

    shuvelrider Member

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    IIRC there is a diff in the the chamber diameter due to milspec 5.56 runs a thicker walled case, may have something to do with different NATO suppliers and reliability in functioning. A .223 ( only ) chamber is tighter, thats why the warning of not shooting any 5.56 in them. Been awhile since I read that article.
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    No, it isn't.
    NATO measures pressure differently then SAAMI.

    5.56 NATO chambers have slightly looser dimensions, and most notably a longer chamber leade to handle long military tracer ammo.

    I doubt any firearms manufacture anywhere has chambered a .223 (that isn't a custom tight chambered match rifle) that is unsafe with 5.56 ammo in the last 40 years.

    The only guns ever known to cause any problem were a few Remington 40X benchrest rifles, and SAKO Vixen .223 rifles with .222" bores 40+ years ago.


    If you got'm and it says .223 on the box??

    Choot'm Elizabeth! Choot'm!!!

    rc
     
  16. MrDig

    MrDig Member

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    That is where most of the debate has arisen, the Military and the Civilian market use different rating systems. It's analogous to metric and standard conversion. But I still hear that I can't shoot one from the other or some such.
    Never had a problem with it and I been using 7.62x51 Winchester white box in a .308 for years. It also applies in this argument.

    I can still hear my DI telling me "The M16 rifle fires a 5.56x45 millimeter round, that's .223 Remington to all you cousin kissers"
    My DI and all the others after him, would not teach me or all the millions of that have been trained since I was, something that would waste their work training us, by telling us to use ammunition that would ruin Uncle Sams Rifles and injure us by doing it.
    Why would the military teach new soldiers to injure themselves when the purpose of training new soldiers is to keep them in the battle not take them out of it?
     
  17. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    It has ALWAYS been safe to shoot .223 Rem in the AR/M16 family of rifles. However, if a chamber is built to TRUE .223 Rem specs (Match rifle specs), shooting 5.56x45mm NATO rounds is not a safe adventure, and it never has been. It is just that now manufacturers are making the chambers of ".223 Remington" rifles slightly looser, so that when people try to run 5.56 in them there are no bad effects (again, with the exception being true match rifles as rc said).
     
  18. 303tom

    303tom member

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    Yes .223 Rem. & 5.56x45 & 5.56 NATO are the same & I shoot them all in my Handi-rifle.
     
  19. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I'm still wondering how exactly is 5.56 going to pose a danger in a match rifle chambered in .223. Surely a match rifle will be built on a platform strong enough to cope with a heck of a lot more pressure than either of these variations generate.
     
  20. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    It isn't the pressure difference that causes problems. Reread rc's post, he explains it quite well (post #15)

    Match rifles are built to tight tolerances for a specific round to ensure greater accuracy, in this case that being the .223 Rem, not the slightly different 5.56x45
     
  21. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I did, but I don't see how those dimensional variations could pose an actual safety problem.
     
  22. awgrizzly

    awgrizzly Member

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    They'll work just fine. This ta-do about .223 & 5.56 is mostly due to companies not advising to shoot 5,56 because of liability. A .223 is chambered tighter with short leads for better accuracy and a 5.56 is probably mostly chambered to shoot tracers. Longer bullets (like up around 70 grains) may bottom out into the rifling which can raise pressure... but unless there are other issues that shouldn't cause a problem. I've often wondered about this though... how much longer than 2.26" can fit into a magazine.
     
  23. Jeff F

    Jeff F Member

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    I have shot a wheel-barrel full of 55 grain 5.56 out of a Savage bolt action .223 with no ill effects other then shooting out the barrel. I have never heard of a .223 bolt action blowing up shooting 5.56. I'm not familiar with the handi rifle,single shot break action, but am under the impression its a solid little rifle. If it were mine I would shoot a few and check how it ejects the brass and check the brass for pressure signs. I would not be afraid to shoot it. If I saw any thing that looked abnormal I would stop.
     
  24. allaroundhunter

    allaroundhunter Member

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    If a chamber has tolerances set for a Match-Grade .223 Rem, then the tolerances can be too tight for the (sometimes) longer 5.56x45mm NATO rounds and cause excess pressure
     
  25. 303tom

    303tom member

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    Maybe this will help..........
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
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