Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Ben86, Dec 22, 2010.
Most sensible thing that's been said in this thread so far.
I was watching a show on National Geographic about a rash of bear attacks in Anchorage and the stock footage they kept rolling of a bear charge, was a black bear charging, holding up and then slapping its jaws together.
Having said that, a .223 is better than nothing.
If that is all you have, your best bet is to fire as many controlled shots as possible before the bear is on you.
I think black bears are generally more timid. The ones I've seen while hiking in California generally keep their distance as long as you show them respect.
that said...ive seen some pretty BAD wild hogs dropped like rocks by 223s and 22-250s rather regularly
that said...florida black bears are not a whole lot bigger than some big wild hogs and the wild hogs that are that big are most certainly tougher than an equal sized bear
I my self would have no qualms over using the 223 with good soft points on the bear if i was hunting from a treestand
if it was charging however i rather have slugs
.223 Woo Hoo!
Hmmm... And the .223 FMJ is HOW MUCH less powerful than the .44 Mag? Trick question: they're about the same.
Can you use one on a Black Bear? Sure, if you must. But given any choice the 12 ga. slug is much preferred. Twice the energy. In some states it isn't even legal to shoot DEER w/a .223...
Really? Got a link to an account of a human-fatality from a Black Bear attack in the lower 48? I've never seen one.
Black bears are over-sized raccoons. Grizzlies are true predators.
Even raccoons will bite. Big raccoons will take big bites.
I was badly mauled ten years ago and so have developed an interest.
List of fatal bear attacks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America
Black bears don't have the "space" or territorial imperative that brown bears have. Most brown bear attacks are simply because you got too close and he's asserting his alpha status. Most black bear attacks are predatory - the animal is starving.
So, the rule of thumb (which is only true most of the time) is to play dead with browns and fight back to your last breath with blacks.
Still, considering how common black bears are and how infrequently people are attacked by them, it's shouldn't be a big worry for anyone.
That's a must see video!!
As for Pepper Spray...
Shotgun with slugs! Don't even think about it with a 55 grain bullet. You can drop them with a 22 short, IF you hit them right, but in a defense situation the odds of hitting them right are just about almost exactly---> 0.
Pointless for home defense? Sorry, can't agree with that at all. Unless you're stating that in this case (M4) the HD rifle is not also good for bear. Then I can agree, but if it was all I had I wouldn't lay down and die without a fight.
You don't say... What do you think all of the 55gr SP bullets loaded in .22 centerfire ammunition is..... yeah varmint bullets Last time I checked the Remington web site they don't offer any loaded 55gr Core Lokt ammo for the .223, what they do list however is a plain ol' 55gr SP varmint bullet. The performance of such will be explosive as is described here regardless of who makes it.
The exceptions will be those bullets that are listed in the links that I previously provided as well as the Rem Core Lokt Ultra which 62gr however. And I still wouldn't choose a .223 with those loads over a 12GA with slugs.
Why would you want a little .22 sized bullet? And in a gun that has a proven history of failing since its inception? A pump shotty is like a revolver, you can quickly rack a new round, and it causes a big hole, wherever it hits. It's better for both situations.
If I had to use a 223 I would load it with 60gr Nosler partition SP or 70gr Barnes copper TSX. Either of these will stay together and offer adequate penetration.
We have had good sized black bears on our porch here at night and no we don't feed or encourage them.
They also emit ear splitting screeches when frightened. I think I'd rather be charged at.
Yet it's been in service for 50+ years? I'm not so sure you've got that straight.
Awesome picture rocky1!
Thanks for sharing the product of your research Kodiak.
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