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.223 for deer

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by jordan1948, Sep 12, 2009.

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  1. okierifleman

    okierifleman Member

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    Do you think that the 30-30,30-06, and 308 are the only cartridges available? Yes, I can name several rounds specifically designed to hunt deer size game. 25-06,260,270,280,7mm-08, various 7 mags, etc.....

    Taking a 4 MOA rifle to the field was not my point. I was talking about missing by unforseen circumstances, not because your rifle is incapable of shooting any better. For instance, what if the deer moves between the time you think you are in the perfect spot and the gun actually goes off? I am going to assume you have been hunting for a while? Have you ever not hit exactly where you aimed? Have you ever missed anything you have shot at? I would be shocked if you say no. I can tell you that I have been hunting for a lot of years and have taken more deer than I can count, and not all of my shots have been exactly where I wanted them. I take comfort in the fact that I am using a caliber large enough, that, God forbid, something goes wrong, has enough power and energy to either do the job or anchor the animal until I can correct my mistake, not leave him running around to die a slow and painful death.

    I am not going to debate the fact that the .223 will kill a deer, it will. So will the .22LR. Is it a good choice for deer, my opinion is no.
     
  2. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Actually, I can say I have never missed where I was aiming on a deer. I will pass up a shot before taking one I can miss. I have to shoot through brush... that deer just got a free pass. I have even let them go at less than 20 yards.
     
  3. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    scythefwd, you make a valid point. I stand corrected.
     
  4. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Okie RIfleman of the rounds you name only one could be partially considered "designed as a deer round" the .270 win, several others were designed with target shooting in mind.

    Its kinda funny how the marketing of mega magnums has fooled folks into thinking it takes a cannon to kill a little ol' whitetail. I guess deer have evolved beyond the .223, 30-30, 300 savage, and the 7x57
     
  5. okierifleman

    okierifleman Member

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    Are you serious? The 280 and 25-06 were designed as target rounds???? Come on! And, with the exception of the various 7mags, none of the rounds I listed are even magnums, so what are you talking about????

    I guess with your line of thinking, people have evolved past whale oil lamps, outhouses, and Model T Fords
     
  6. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    The 7mm08 comes to mind as a product of the search for a sihlouette round.

    And yes in my part of the country we have evolved past pooping in wooden shacks, Model t's and whale oil lamps/
     
  7. schlockinz

    schlockinz Member

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    I've seen many deer taken with a .22-250, and I've known some taken with a .22 hornet, seems that a .223 could do it, personally, I'd rather have the 22-250 or bigger.
     
  8. pikid89

    pikid89 Member

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    i may be wrong but doesnt TN have a .24 cal limit
     
  9. jordan1948

    jordan1948 Member

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    I checked, as long as it's a centerfire cartridge you can use it to hunt deer legally
     
  10. okierifleman

    okierifleman Member

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    Well HGUNHNTR, you just proved my point. People evolve, rifle cartridges evolve, some are forgotten, some are reborn, new ones are created. I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree. On my lease, we take anywhere between 125-150 deer a year, I have seen deer shot with everything from a .223 to a .375H&H. Is the .223 legal in Texas? Yes, probably one of the first states to allow it. Is it legal on our ranch? No. We saw too many people that said they were expert shots, only took perfect shots, etc....come back to the house with tales of deer that just ran off. We found them with a shoulder blown off, still hobbling around the next weekend, or dead under the buzzards. I hope that you and everyone else who think its a good deer cartridge, continue to have great success with your .223. Good hunting!
     
  11. JCisHe

    JCisHe Member

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    I've got a guns and ammo here that says .22/250 is better but .223 is just fine within 100 yards.

    I don't see why not. Just shoot the deer in the head.
     
  12. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    Oh, okay. Well if a magazine says it, then it must be true.
    Great idea about shooting them in the head from 100 yards too. That way if you miss by and inch, you'll just blow it's jaw off, and it'll die slowly in about two or three days. Great advice.
     
  13. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    If you can't kill it with a .223Rem. you can't kill it with anything. We have a hunter in our club who lost 3 deer last season to poor shot placement. He shoots a 7mmRem.mag. Caliber can't make up for poor marksmanship.
     
  14. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    That is a good point too. Larger rounds don't make up for lousy shooting.
     
  15. JCisHe

    JCisHe Member

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    How about you track down the animal if you don't kill it and who in the world could miss with a .223 at 100 yards? Beside, the kill point would be the base of the skull where it meets the spine so if you missed it would enter the neck and would die very quickly.

    And yes, when professional hunters say a .223 isn't a bad choice I tend to take their advice over say some dude sitting at his desk being smart.
     
  16. blackops

    blackops Member

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    I'm going to say it again because I like to...a 223 is too light for deer. Can you kill a deer with a 223? YES!!! Is it the best choice for the average hunter or shot? NO!!! Terrain is going to dictate which rounds will be successful. If your getting 100yd or shorter shots a majority of the time a 223 (for me) would do the job, but I still wouldn't prefer the round. I hold a certain respect for wild animals and using a 223 is just simply risking too much. IMO the 270 is the best deer round. Doesn't tear up too much meat, drops them quick, and good for out to 500 yds.
     
  17. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Why would anyone who respects their quarry take a shot at 500 yards?
     
  18. JCisHe

    JCisHe Member

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    I'm in Michigan man. We're talking 25 yards most of the time. Too many trees and other "nature" in the way for further distance unless I'm hunting a cornfield but even then 100 yards would be MAX.
     
  19. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Jimmyray, believe it or not, there are folks out there who, without rangefinders, have a surprising number of clean kills at 500 yards. I don't pretend to be one of them, but I have made one-hit clean DRT kills at 350 and 450. One each, but the shots worked exactly as planned.
     
  20. jimmyraythomason

    jimmyraythomason Member

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    Art,it was a tongue-in-cheek response to blackops' post. Is it any more or less ethical to use a small caliber like the .223 on deer or take 500yrd + shots? Sure people make DRT shots at 500+ yrds,some also make DRT shots on deer with the .223. Just askin'
     
  21. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    Sounds like those people need to learn what the meaning of expert is. Taking a shoulder shot with anything less than a .270 isn't a guaranteed stop. Even the .30-30, which I hunt with, may not break the shoulder if you don't get a good square hit. That is poor hunting, taking a poor shot, and just that poor deer (had to get that last poor in there :) ). A cns shot, which I don't do, or a good heart shot/heart double lung (easiest to get from a quartering away or broadside shot) pretty much should be the only shot a .223 makes. I see that shot pretty much on 2/3 of the deer that present shots to me. In deep woods, it is a great caliber... when shooting 150y, it isn't up to snuff. There is just too much that can go wrong with that shot. I wouldn't feel under gunned with it at all, but I hunt at bow distances.
    I believe that you shouldn't be bragging about the 500y shot you took, you should be explaining why you couldn't get closer. You shouldn't be taking shots that are easy, you should be taking shots that are impossible to miss. *You is generic in this case... not anyone in specific*
     
  22. ~z

    ~z Member

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    The 500yd shots are not for everyone but some are more than capable of making these and consider them “mid range” shots.

    I don’t see the need to explain why “I couldn’t get closer” on a shot at that distance any more than someone else would need to explain why they couldn’t get closer on a 150yd shot.
    Some folks have a wider comfort zone than others. I’ll brag about shot placement at any distance, I’ll also pass on shots I have not proven to myself I can make.
    ~z
     
  23. scythefwd

    scythefwd Member

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    ~z - I would bet that there are less than 5% of shooters that can consistently take a 500y shot and keep it in a 6 inch circle under field conditions. There is wind to take into account, drop, etc. I know there are a good deal of people out there that can, but that is a lot of variables to be playing with. If you can make that shot... good for you. It is easy to say "I have practiced out to that distance and I know I can make that shot consistently". I just want to see how may actually can.

    The mentality behind the comment is more that if you can see the deer at 500y, 99% of the time you have the time to get to 350-400 y and can take the easier shot. If it is on the hoof, and you can make the shot... you are probably in the top 1-3% in ability if you can do it consistently.
     
  24. ~z

    ~z Member

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    6” at 500 is very doable; I would be willing to bet the # is far more than 5% for folks that have taken the time to set up their equipment and practice at these distances. However for the folks who just feed their .270 green box ammo and take a SWAG at the wind, I’d say 5% is mighty generous.

    Long range shooting is not a parlor trick it just takes some education, observation, and practice.

    However, maybe we should start another post as this is a bit off topic. Scythefwd, if you want to start it, I’ll be glad to jump in.
    ~z
     
  25. Tacbandit

    Tacbandit Member

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    Back to the issue of .223 for deer...Not the best caliber, but if that's what you have, that's
    what you use...If you must, the 64 gr power point is a good round. Forget the long shots, and take a clean shot...one you know you can make...It'll work for you if you do your part.
     
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