223 loads using H4198?

[Sniper66]

I've used Benchmark and Varget for loading 223. Running low on those powders and find I have some H4198 and some Nosler 50gr Spitzer bullets. Of course, I'll consult my reloading manual and build some test loads, but wondering what you guys are loading out there with H4198. Which bullet are you liking? I'm shooting 2 very different .223s, a Remington 700 with a fluted 26" barrel and an AR15 style with 20" carbon fiber wrapped stainless barrel. Primary targets will be prairie dogs and coyotes. I'll welcome your thoughts. Tom

 

[Ironicaintit]

I’ve used IMR4198, which is extremely close to the H version. Ive loaded 55 gr JHP and JSP with it, and found my most accurate loads at the top end (above book max, in some cases).
Works great, IMO and is well suited to the AR.

My mini likes it too, but it’s really not very fussy.

Being a fast powder, those 50 gr spitzers would be a good pairing with it

 

[Charlie98]

Being a fast powder, those 50 gr spitzers would be a good pairing with it

That's my thought... I probably wouldn't go any heavier than 55grn.

There are a few members here that use IMR4198 in the AR, if I remember correctly, short cycling can be a problem with lighter loads.

 

[luzyfuerza]

The short cycling comes when 4198 is used in rifle-length gas systems. Seems to work fine in carbine length systems, though.

See:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-hornady-bullets.871053/page-3#post-11567442

 

[kerreckt]

I have used IMR4198 with 50-55gr. projectile with great success. In fact one of my most accurate loads is this powder and a 52gr. bullet.

 

[Ironicaintit]

The short cycling comes when 4198 is used in rifle-length gas systems. Seems to work fine in carbine length systems, though.

See:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...3-hornady-bullets.871053/page-3#post-11567442

if loaded near or at (or over) max, 4198 runs a rifle length gas system fine. At least, mine runs fine. I do understand that it’s at the bottom edge of capability there.
If it’s not a stiff charge, or if your rings are very worn or whatever, it may not be reliable.
Myself, I’ve had no issues.

that said, I’ve moved on to IMR3031 pretty much exclusively for 223/5.56

 

[Walkalong]

4198 was used a lot in .222 for accuracy loads, so I can’t see why it wouldn’t work accuracy wise.

 

[blue32]

I've has success with H4198 with 55 gr. in a middy. You'll have to load at the upper end for reliable cycling in a semi. I found 19.7 gr. to be the lowest that would cycle. I stopped at 20.3 gr. It meters fairly well for a stick powder and isn't that popular so it definitely has some things going for it.

 

[FROGO207]

I also have used IMR4198 in 223 with good results and H4198 is so close it "should" be virtually the same but never tried any. I would think it should work well with that bullet. Let us know how it worked out. Always looking for more 223 data. I now use IMR 3031 almost exclusively for 55-65 grain bullets.

 

[Toprudder]

H4198 is my preferred powder in my AR pistol loads, less muzzle flash and report than slower burning powders. I have no problems cycling even at the minimum charge of 19.0gn w/ 55gn bullets. However, the same combo in my mid-length gas system 16” carbine requires near max charge to cycle reliably.

 

[2ndtimer]

FWIW, I had very mediocre results with 4198 years ago, (maybe the newer stuff is better?) in a bolt action Savage. Velocity was 200 to 300 FPS slower than other powders and accuracy was uninspiring. I won’t even consider it for my AR’s when there are so many better options available. I would run IMR-4064 before I would consider 4198. Glad to hear others like it, rest assured I won’t be buying any which should help keep it available for those who like it.
As for the original poster, if you want run 4198, I suggest the lighter the better for bullet choices, given it’s fast relative burn rate. Once you dispose of what you have, try some other powders. I would be very surprised if you don’t find markedly improved performance with Accurate 2015, Reloder 10x, Ramshot TAC, H-335 or a host of others.

 

[SauceyPanda]

I've used Benchmark and Varget for loading 223. Running low on those powders and find I have some H4198 and some Nosler 50gr Spitzer bullets. Of course, I'll consult my reloading manual and build some test loads, but wondering what you guys are loading out there with H4198. Which bullet are you liking? I'm shooting 2 very different .223s, a Remington 700 with a fluted 26" barrel and an AR15 style with 20" carbon fiber wrapped stainless barrel. Primary targets will be prairie dogs and coyotes. I'll welcome your thoughts. Tom

Curious if you ever found a good load for the 4198?
I have 16lbs of FSP-680 which is Russian made and sold through Ft. Smith and is supposed to be most "similar" to 4198. Using published 4198 data, I can't get it to cycle through my gas gun. I started at the bottom load (Hornady 2020 data) 55FR FMJBT, at 17.4 and it fires fine, but is definitely light and won't cycle. I have worked all the way up to 22.3gr and same result. Fires true (and accurate) and ejects shell accurately, but still will not cycle to pick up the next round.
I tried a lighter buffer spring and no joy. I thought it was the rifle (PSA 16", 5.56, mid-length gas) so I switched to my old Bushmaster 16", 5.56 and same exact result. I am currently in the process of building several AR's so I have several extra parts and have swapped uppers, BCG, buffer springs, etc. and still no joy. (Both rifles function flawlessly with factory loads and with my IMR4064 hand loads)
At 22.5 grains - I am getting flattened primers and even a "slightly" stuck case. At 23.0 - I got some blow back through the primer, flatten primers, cases stuck. I am using some not very well sorted mixed used brass, so I expected some not perfectly consistent results and pressure signs.
I used CCI #41 primers and switched to some Winchester as well. Also used some pre-primed factory brass with similar results. I altered nearly everything in the equations except the powder and....the operator . Still can't find success. At the lower end of the load data, I have found what appears to be a very accurate load for my NOW "bolt-action" AR.
Sorry for the long post. I unfortunately have 16 pounds of this stuff so I would REALLY like to come up with a load that works.

 

[SauceyPanda]

OR.....I need to buy a bolt action .223

 

[Nature Boy]

OR.....I need to buy a bolt action .223

I truly believe everyone should. You’ll never fully appreciate the accuracy potential of the .223 round until you have one.

 

[Dale Alan]

I use it with 50,52, and 53 grain bullets . Sierra and Berger mostly , I get great results with 20-26" barrels in bolt action rifles , I have used it in ARs also but I honestly can't remember how it did .

 

[243winxb]

I can't get it to cycle through my gas gun. I started at the bottom load (Hornady 2020 data) 55FR FMJBT, at 17.4

Change the port pressure timing by loading a 69 gr Sierra match bullet. Your barrel twist rate needs to be 9 or faster.

My guess.

 

[FROGO207]

These days I have moved to TAC for my 55 grain 223 rounds it seems to have a much wider node over more temperature variations.

 

[SauceyPanda]

Change the port pressure timing by loading a 69 gr Sierra match bullet. Your barrel twist rate needs to be 9 or faster.

My guess.

I do have some Hornady 62gr FMJBT and some 75gr BTHP. Although as the bullet weight goes up, the powder volume goes down, no? But I guess it's more about the pressure timing and not the overall pressure, since maybe this powder is just a teensy bit fast for the gas guns? I will look up the loads, but I think the 4198 is for lighter loads so not sure if there is published data for heavier bullets but I will find out.

I do have an upper chambered for .223 Wylde with 18" stainless barrel, 1:7 twist. I was going to use it as my scoped gun whenever I get the time to assemble the lower. Both my old (c.1996?) Bushmaster and my newer PSA rifles are 16" barrels. The PSA is a "mid-length" gas tube and no idea what the old Bushmaster is (It's a standard A2 type). Maybe I'll swap that Wylde 18" in there and see if it makes a difference.

So....I failed to mention - I am new to reloading - been at it a year. Long time shooter, but new to reloading. I started with pistol loads and moved onward. I have loaded the .223 with IMR-4064 with success, but only had 1lb of it and I am having hard time getting any powder I want - or ANY powder for that matter (shocker, I know),. Hence the purchase of 16 pounds of this lovely Russian powder. The powder is certified, etc so I am sure it is fine, but maybe just not well suited for my AR (which is why I bought it). I figured since I had found published loads for H4198 (which is supposedly closely similar) that it would certainly function and I wanted it for plinking and not bench shooting so....rolled the dice.

Anyway, I'll try both the heavier bullet and the other upper and see if I have any luck.

 

[SauceyPanda]

Two months later...
Still no joy with this "4198 similar" powder. Although I have not tried the heavier bullets yet, and really have not experimented much further with it. SO many social engagements, so little time...
I have had good success with IMR4064, TAC, CFE223 in all three of my AR guns - NONE of them like the "similar 4198" so far.
on the brighter side....Built my "new" .223 Wylde AR. Ohhhh she butter! shoots very well. Very happy with it so far. 18" stainless steel barrel, PSA upper, Nickel Boron BCG, Aero lower, Hiperfire EDT sharp shooter trigger, M-lok narrow handguard, Hogue overmold stock, Hogue grip, Strike Ind. extend latch (needed with the optic), Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8x24, cheap UTG bipod (much better than expected)
This was a BUDGET target rifle with everything purchased "on sale" and I am very happy with the results on this budget. Less than $1k even with all the upgrades(minus the optic). I'd call this a mid-grade quality rifle on a budget build.
Also, I have found I very much like the Armaspec stealth recoil spring. I tried it for one gun and now have it in two 5.56 AR-15 guns and my "AR-47"- an AR platform 7.62x39. The stealth spring definitely eliminates that twang.

And with all my recent building and reloading, my wife and family now considers me a "gun nut", so ....do I get a badge or an award for that somewhere? Or just on a government watch list?

 

[243winxb]

16lbs of FSP-680 which is Russian made

I have not tried the heavier bullets yet,

Well its not one of the 4198 powder, so it needs testing in your guns. An adjustable gas block may help? A guess.

 

[Sniper66]

OP here. I started loading some .223 with Vithavouri powder and have been shooting <1" groups with N530 and Nosler 50 gr Spitzers. They will be wicked on p-dogs.