.223 "match" hollow points...fragmentation?

[TCW]

Hi!,
Do the .223 Match grade hollowpoints expand or fragment? Do they give a resonable measure of saftey when used for defense (ie wall penetration)? Would you use them for defense or would you prefer a soft point or fmj (higher penetration). I'm not talking V-Max here, just the typical (cheaper) match hollow point.

Thanks!
TCW

 

[okeydoke]

I would not trust them, but it appears

that at least some of them DO fragment, at over 2800 fps, at least. Depending upon bullet wt, load, and barrel length, they may still frag at 150 yds or more, or they might not at all. I favor 60 gr Nosler Partitions for serious work, 64 gr Win Sp's if the 30c each price of the Partitions bothers you.

 

[JStordahl]

TCW: I think the match bullets will frag, but you might want to check out www.tacticalforums.com and look at their terminal effects section. I like the Winchester 64 gr. PPs. A best buy. My Bushmaster carbine with Aimpoint dumps those in 1.5 inches at 100.....nearly as good as a 69 gr. Sierra MK.

 

[cratz2]

The only very limited contribution I can make is to say that I have shot crows with 75 Gr HPs from Black Hills and the result from 75 to 200 yards is a very dead bird that is generally in one piece.

Compared to the 40 Gr VMax, the difference in destruction is like night and day.

 

[okeydoke]

yaah man. I shot chucks with a 50 gr

Hornady "SX" sp, at 3000 fps from a 222, and they would never exit the chuck! I'd shoot crows with it, and they'd be killed so suddenly that they couldnt let go of the limb that they sat on!

 

[benEzra]

Gary K. Roberts did extensive testing of a wide variety of .223 loads in 10% gelatin, published in the July/August 1998 issue of Police Marksman (pp. 38 ff.). Some excerpts:

Bare gelatin:

Win 69 gr JHP-BT Match S223M
Vel (avg) 2758 fps
Ave penetration 11.9 inches
Ave frag 74.6%

Black Hills 75 gr JHP Match
Vel (avg) 2580 fps
Ave penetration 13.3 inches
Ave frag 44.1%

9mm Fed 147 gr JHP 9MS [for comparison]
Vel (avg) 1043 fps
Ave penetration 13.2 inches
Ave frag n/a

Gelatin after passing through interior wall:

Win 69 gr JHP-BT Match S223M
Ave penetration 13.3 inches
Ave frag 79.5%

Black Hills 75 gr JHP Match
Ave penetration 13.0 inches
Ave frag 38.4%

9mm Fed 147 gr JHP 9MS [for comparison]
Ave penetration 22.8 inches (!)
Ave frag n/a

The moral is, they don't penetrate any more than handgun bullets (at least heavy 9mm's), and are actually less penetrating after going through a wall, but a single wall won't stop them. Unfortunately, Roberts did not give data on any loads of less than 55 grains, due to a strong a priori bias against anything with less than 30 cm penetration. I would have liked to have seen the Federal 40-gr JHP data, particularly the wall test. Oh well.

bE

 

[TCW]

Thanks for the reply's, guys.

okeydoke:
Where's a good online source for 60 gr Nosler Partitions or the 64 gr Win Sp's? (I assume Sp's means soft points). Which do you think would feed more reliably in a mini-14 Partitions or soft points? What are partiitons, anyway (SP, HP)?

JStordahl:
What is "PP" in Winchester 64 gr. PPs.

Any good online sources for these?

Many thanks!
TCW

 

[bernie]

The "PP" stands for Power Point. I think this is pretty much just a brand name for the Winchester soft point. Somebody else will have to back me up on that one.

 

[JStordahl]

Yes, Bernie is correct. PP is Power Point, just another term for Winchester's soft point. They are a flat base bullet as opposed to the boat tail varieties like the Sierra Match Kings. 26 grs. of Varget gives 2700 fps or so out of a 16 inch barrel.

 

[TCW]

Interesting.

So...

Overpenetration with a .233 fmj is a problem but not as bad as one might think. Still SP and JHP (some) would solve this problem.

My question: Which brand/type would be a good value AND feed reliably in a semi-auto (Mini-14)?

Thanks!
TCW

 

[Steve Smith]

Sierra will tell you that fragmentation was not a consideration for their MatchKing bullets.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Before you load up that AR for home defense

...you need to test that load. Do NOT rely on the manufacturer's claims, what the show on websites, etc. You need to test that ammunition to see how well it fragments and/or penetrates. I've shot quite a few things with .223 FMJ, and the fragmentation was nowhere to be seen. Hollowpoints might be a different story, but all because this or that SWAT team uses M4 carbines doesn't mean it's the best choice for your thin-walled apartment, townhouse, etc.

Remember, lives could be at stake. That round goes through your burgler, through the wall, and into your neighbor, you're going to have a lot of time in the can to sit and think about your ammo selection choices.

 

[BushyGuy]

what about the Remington 45gr JHP will that fragment completely?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Rather than revive a thread that is over six years old, you might take a look at the "Rifle Forum Reading Library" thread tacked at the top of this forum. It has a lot of good information on terminal ballistics performance.