.223 or 5.56?

[DynoDan1]

So I'm about to get into reloading for my AR15.
Over the last few years whenever I went to the range I picked up what looked to be 5.56 and .223
brass. I dumped it all into a bucket and now I've started going through it in preparation for reloading.
The brass marked .223 or 5.56 are obvious. What I ran across is some that don't have a designation
of caliber stamped on the head. They are stamped with PSD and what I presume to be a date. I did a search and they came up as a product of S. Korea.
PSD Poongsan Metal Manufacturing Company Ltd., Seoul, Republic of Korea (probably at the Dongrae Ammunition Plant) 7. This came via the "International Ammunition Assoc's" website.
I checked them dimensionally and according to my reloading manuals they seem to be .223 and/or 5.56. I understand that .223/5.56 are essentially the same thing other than material thickness. Anybody ever heard of PSD or shot them? What are these? I got a boatload of these and I hope I can use them.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I load both 223 and 556 casings. I do not notice any difference in accuracy. I have some PSD brass too. They work fine. The PSD maybe military?

 

[snuzzo29]

PSD brass is made by the same company that makes PMC, and is sold as PMC X-Tac ammo. I haven't personally used PSD brass but I have used PMC and like it. PSD is a military brass so you will have to remove the primer crimp before reloading.

 

[DynoDan1]

WHEW!!!
Good to know 'cause I got lots and lotsa PSD brass!!!
Now I just gotta figure which die set to get.
Plus all the other stuff!

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I been upgrading from Lee to RCBS dies.

 

[JimKirk]

.223 and 5.56 are the same dies ...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Most of my handgun dies are from Lee but I just seem to like the dies from RCBS for rifle loading. They are high quality at a fair price IMO.

 

[DynoDan1]

.223 and 5.56 are the same dies ...

Yes, I'm aware that they are the same.
I'm just wondering which brand of dies to get.
Midway has Whidden gunworks Click adjust sizer die set #151631 that I'm considering.
Good? Bad? ???

 

[DynoDan1]

Most of my handgun dies are from Lee but I just seem to like the dies from RCBS for rifle loading. They are high quality at a fair price IMO.

Yeah, I use RCBS for my .308's. They seem to work better than the Hornady set I bought at twice the price of the RCBS set.

 

[DynoDan1]

I been upgrading from Lee to RCBS dies.

Good move.
I've been using RCBS for my .308's and they have been hassle free.

 

[DMW1116]

This is a question I was wondering about too w/r to the PSD head stamp. I have about 40 PSD cases I want to reload as part of a bigger batch of 55 grain FMJ ammo.

I have had good luck with Lee dies. I generally only load to 223 specs from Lee, Lyman, Hornady and Ramshot, and use the brass interchangeably for those loads. I may try some 5.56 loads but if I do I’ll use 5.56 stamped brass.

 

[IALoder]

I like PSD brass. It has loaded well for me. They are the 5.56 version of PMC ammo, box says X-Tac or something like that. Also pretty decent ammo.

 

[cfullgraf]

I like Lake City or W-W cases. I have some R-P cases in use.

Starline cases are good but I have enough of other head stamps on hand that I have not bought any Starline cases.

I've shied away from range pick up cases as they tend to to be too variable for my purposes.

But, use what ever floats your boat and process accordingly.

 

[DynoDan1]

This is a question I was wondering about too w/r to the PSD head stamp. I have about 40 PSD cases I want to reload as part of a bigger batch of 55 grain FMJ ammo.

I have had good luck with Lee dies. I generally only load to 223 specs from Lee, Lyman, Hornady and Ramshot, and use the brass interchangeably for those loads. I may try some 5.56 loads but if I do I’ll use 5.56 stamped brass.

After doing some low level research, it looks to me that it's not necessary to segregate the brass via just the caliber designation. 5.56/.223 @ 62grs.- 75grs. is basically the same powder charge according to my Speer/Hornady/Lyman/ manuals and going through the internet resulted in the same. Of course each source had their "opinion" as to what powder worked best and how much to load. That really comes down to what your particular rifle "likes".
With that being said, in the interest of transparency, I'm an idiot and haven't a clue.

 

[DynoDan1]

I like Lake City or W-W cases. I have some R-P cases in use.

Starline cases are good but I have enough of other head stamps on hand that I have not bought any Starline cases.

I've shied away from range pick up cases as they tend to to be too variable for my purposes.

But, use what ever floats your boat and process accordingly.

Right now I'm just getting to "know" my AR. Since I'm pretty sure I'll be shooting it A LOT, I figure I might as well start reloading for it. I already reload for my .308's and handguns. So I'll be reloading whatever I got until it comes time where I want more from my AR.

 

[JEBruns]

After doing some low level research, it looks to me that it's not necessary to segregate the brass via just the caliber designation. 5.56/.223 @ 62grs.- 75grs. is basically the same powder charge according to my Speer/Hornady/Lyman/ manuals and going through the internet resulted in the same. Of course each source had their "opinion" as to what powder worked best and how much to load. That really comes down to what your particular rifle "likes".

Good to know. I'm right there with you, gearing up to load .223/5.56, on my Dillon 1100. Ordered $600 worth of stuff to do the conversion on Thursday, so getting serious about it. I've been keeping my once fired 223 and 556 brass segregated, but since I'm only going to load to .223 recipes, I may stop worrying about that. I went with RCBS T/C dies, FWIW.

 

[Walkalong]

I understand that .223/5.56 are essentially the same thing other than material thickness.

.223 and 5.56 brass overlap in the weight/wall thickness category. Can't go by that alone. All of it can withstand 5.56 pressures, that's not the limiting factor.

The Whidden click adjustable dies are super nice, but so are the standard RCBS dies, you might also consider a set of RCBS Matchmaster dies, very nice.

I have had a standard RCBS and Redding.223 sizer, and three seaters, including a Whidden, not sure any one of the seaters actually does a better job, but the Whidden (Like all micrometer top seaters) is easy to dial back and forth/make adjustments with. Pictured are the Redding sizer, Forster sleeve type seater, Whidden sleeve/micrometer top seater.

 

[kmw1954]

What I ran across is some that don't have a designation
of caliber stamped on the head. They are stamped with PSD and what I presume to be a date. I did a search and they came up as a product of S. Korea.
PSD Poongsan Metal Manufacturing Company Ltd., Seoul, Republic of Korea (probably at the Dongrae Ammunition Plant) 7. This came via the "International Ammunition Assoc's" website.

Anybody ever heard of PSD or shot them? What are these? I got a boatload of these and I hope I can use them.

PSD and PMC are basically the same brass manufactured by the same company. The PSD uses a military crimped primer while the PMC does not.

I have a whole plastic pretzel jar full of PSD brass all cleaned and ready to have the primer pockets worked. I have loaded and shot much of this brass and have found it very consistent and with the first reloading and firing with the same load and components have actually found it more consistent than LC brass. Now I have quit using it because I now have a few thousand PMC cases ready that I do not have to deal with crimped primer pockets.

As I work in a position that allows me unlimited access to brass I now only pick up 2 headstamps for 223 and that being PMC and Norma. Everything else gets left on the benches or on the ground.

 

[Megawatt maker]

5.56 and 223 Rem are the exact same brass. Most of my reloading manuals verify this.

The common notion is that military brass is heavier, and in the cases of 30/06 and 7.62 NATO (308 Win) this is indeed the case.

When its comes to 556/223...its not at all the case.
I have batches of commercial Win 223 brass that is heavier than any LC mil surplus brass, and PPU also tends to run heavier as well. RP brass can be all over the map...some heavier, some lighter...

While I haven't loaded the volume of 556/223 so far like I have 30/06 and 308 over the years...my experience with 556/223 has shown that, very unlike the others, 556 brass makes so little different its not worth taking the time to even sort it. I taken the painstaking time to separate different lots by head stamp for the LC brass, and kept my commercial lots intact as batches...and found exactly ZERO difference in down range impact using the same bullet/primer/powder formula for both types of brass.

I have also done experiments where I've gathered range brass by the bucket, did only quick headstamp inspections to be sure they were boxer primed (I know berdan primed 556/223 is rather rare, but still find at times...goofy stuff that is), I sized/trimmed and loaded this completely random stuff...and still found so little difference downrange as to not make sorting worth the time.

in my experience, this is pretty unique to 556/223...in most other calibers brass can make a huge difference.

Its handy...and makes reloading 556/223 much more fun!

 

[DynoDan1]

.223 and 5.56 brass overlap in the weight/wall thickness category. Can't go by that alone. All of it can withstand 5.56 pressures, that's not the limiting factor.

The Whidden click adjustable dies are super nice, but so are the standard RCBS dies, you might also consider a set of RCBS Matchmaster dies, very nice.

I have had a standard RCBS and Redding.223 sizer, and three seaters, including a Whidden, not sure any one of the seaters actually does a better job, but the Whidden (Like all micrometer top seaters) is easy to dial back and forth/make adjustments with. Pictured are the Redding sizer, Forster sleeve type seater, Whidden sleeve/micrometer top seater.

Hmm...so is that a "kit" you put together or is it a kit that can be bought as a whole?
I was seriously considering the RCBS Match master dies but they are on backorder on the Midway website.
I'm rather impatient and impulsive when it comes to reloading, I gotsta shoot, man!!!
Putting together a list of stuff just for my AR and 1911 and I'm approaching 1K already.
Good thing I recently came into a bit of money but if I keep buying stuff for this hobby I'll have to eventually have to get over
my dislike of hunting (blood & guts make me squeamish) in order to feed myself!!!
What does squirrel taste like?

 

[kmw1954]

556 brass makes so little different its not worth taking the time to even sort it. I taken the painstaking time to separate different lots by head stamp for the LC brass, and kept my commercial lots intact as batches...and found exactly ZERO difference in down range impact using the same bullet/primer/powder formula for both types of brass.

Seems we have completely alternate experiences with 223 brass.

I will be shooting a 223 bolt gun this winter in an open rifle league with ranges from 100 to 300yds and found the gun and ammunition's make a huge difference. Then just for giggles I will be competing against some very able shooters using some very well built bench rest guns. As far as I know I will be the only one firing a 223 bolt gun.

So this past summer while developing loads for this competition I arrived a a time to just test some brass and what I had the most of. This amounted to LC, GFL, PCM, PSD and Norma.

The test was this; processed 25 of each all exactly the same, same time, same machines, same process. Then loaded them all again at the same time, same machines, same set-ups, same components. Then fired each at the same session, same day, round robin in 3 shot volleys. Recorded and marked each target.

After this exercise I found that the brass did make a difference. Some produced smaller groups and some produced may less "fliers".

Granted for some the sizes may be insignificant but when trying to hit 1" targets @ 300yds. 1/8" can be the difference between a hit or a miss.

 

[DynoDan1]

5.56 and 223 Rem are the exact same brass. Most of my reloading manuals verify this.

The common notion is that military brass is heavier, and in the cases of 30/06 and 7.62 NATO (308 Win) this is indeed the case.

When its comes to 556/223...its not at all the case.
I have batches of commercial Win 223 brass that is heavier than any LC mil surplus brass, and PPU also tends to run heavier as well. RP brass can be all over the map...some heavier, some lighter...

While I haven't loaded the volume of 556/223 so far like I have 30/06 and 308 over the years...my experience with 556/223 has shown that, very unlike the others, 556 brass makes so little different its not worth taking the time to even sort it. I taken the painstaking time to separate different lots by head stamp for the LC brass, and kept my commercial lots intact as batches...and found exactly ZERO difference in down range impact using the same bullet/primer/powder formula for both types of brass.

I have also done experiments where I've gathered range brass by the bucket, did only quick headstamp inspections to be sure they were boxer primed (I know berdan primed 556/223 is rather rare, but still find at times...goofy stuff that is), I sized/trimmed and loaded this completely random stuff...and still found so little difference downrange as to not make sorting worth the time.

in my experience, this is pretty unique to 556/223...in most other calibers brass can make a huge difference.

Its handy...and makes reloading 556/223 much more fun!

WHEW!!! Glad to hear (read) all that!
I pretty much went into reloading for my bolt action .308's/.38 spcl/.357 mag/9mm blind and ignorant. Cost me a buttload in $$$ and ammo.
Think I've got things down (HA!!) for them but AR and .45ACP are different, especially AR's. Whenever I went to the range I picked up brass for 5.56/.223 and .45ACP in anticipation of getting the guns to shoot them.

 

[DynoDan1]

Seems we have completely alternate experiences with 223 brass.

I will be shooting a 223 bolt gun this winter in an open rifle league with ranges from 100 to 300yds and found the gun and ammunition's make a huge difference. Then just for giggles I will be competing against some very able shooters using some very well built bench rest guns. As far as I know I will be the only one firing a 223 bolt gun.

So this past summer while developing loads for this competition I arrived a a time to just test some brass and what I had the most of. This amounted to LC, GFL, PCM, PSD and Norma.

The test was this; processed 25 of each all exactly the same, same time, same machines, same process. Then loaded them all again at the same time, same machines, same set-ups, same components. Then fired each at the same session, same day, round robin in 3 shot volleys. Recorded and marked each target.

After this exercise I found that the brass did make a difference. Some produced smaller groups and some produced may less "fliers".

Granted for some the sizes may be insignificant but when trying to hit 1" targets @ 300yds. 1/8" can be the difference between a hit or a miss.

I think if you're shooting a rifle that is chambered only for .223 then what you say is probably true.
I don't have such a rifle. I have an AR, so knowing that 5.56/.223 brass can be loaded as "one" is what I was curious about.
The powders listed via my manuals overlap between 5.56/.223 quite a bit as do the charges. Whether or not that somewhat narrow range will work in my AR is yet to be known. I'm gonna start at the low end of that range and work my way up. Hopefully I'll find that "sweet spot" where they overlap and I'll be good to go (hopefully).

 

[DynoDan1]

PSD and PMC are basically the same brass manufactured by the same company. The PSD uses a military crimped primer while the PMC does not.

I have a whole plastic pretzel jar full of PSD brass all cleaned and ready to have the primer pockets worked. I have loaded and shot much of this brass and have found it very consistent and with the first reloading and firing with the same load and components have actually found it more consistent than LC brass. Now I have quit using it because I now have a few thousand PMC cases ready that I do not have to deal with crimped primer pockets.

As I work in a position that allows me unlimited access to brass I now only pick up 2 headstamps for 223 and that being PMC and Norma. Everything else gets left on the benches or on the ground.

I got a bucket load of 5.56/.223 of all kinds of head stamps but most are PSD's.
I wasn't paying attention to the brands, I didn't even have a gun to shoot the brass until about 2 weeks ago.
I bought a bunch of 5.56 completed ammo just so I could shoot it while I was gathering up info.
I'm approaching 1K for stuff to reload my 5.56/.223 and 1911!
This is getting worse than if was spending my money on crack and hookers!!!
But this is waaay more fun (I think).

 

[Cemetery21]

That 1/8" difference at 300 yards is really what it's all about. But, most of us have rifles and abilities that cannot shoot that difference.
I applaud those guys that strive for that 1/8" difference (and I used to think I was one of them). But if you are not that guy, then some of the brass prep may not show up on your target. So, decide who you are (today) but learn all you can 'cause you might be the other guy some day.